Special Interest => Habitat and Conservation => Topic started by: Jim_Tait on November 06, 2013, 10:51:04 AM
Title: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: Jim_Tait on November 06, 2013, 10:51:04 AM
I have been coming across increasing numbers of references to the Mary River's apparently increasing Sooty Grunter population including some else where linked videos of some nice kayak based action involving some real thumpers! I first came across Sooties in the Mary back in 2007 while doing baseline survey work as part of the Traveston Dam studies. At the time we assumed they were simply 'farm dam escapees' as DPI supported farm dam fish stocking programs back in the early 90's allowed Sooties to be stocked into dams under the translocation policies (or lack of) of the day. Some of the else where and Utube threads associated with Sooty photos and vids from the Mary suggest that their numbers have increased since 2011 following the big floods. One assumes that this is associated with increased releases of fish from dams or breeding recruitment events or both. Some of the contributors to the threads that obviously have been aware of the Mary's Sooty population were critical of guys who had advertised their presence as they felt that this would now lead to increased pressure on their 'secret' fishery and undermine the efforts they had gone to, to support the development of the fishery!? What the latter means in terms of what has gone on I'm not sure, maybe some midnight stocking brigade activity into the river itself (cf. farm dams) or maybe some guys having a lend of themselves. To me it is a real shame. Don't get me wrong next time I kayak the Mary I'm sure to enjoy the slugging hand to hand combat that only sooties can provide. But they just aint meant to be in the Mary River and what really concerns me is that the population of Mary River cod that has slowly been recovering in the Mary main channel - primarily through stocking efforts and perhaps a bit of natural recruitment is now going to be undermined. Teraponids (Grunters) are a very aggressive family of fish. Anyone that has kept a spangled perch in a tank knows that they don't rate as a community fish. Sooties sit at the top of the Grunter aggression list, it’s part of what makes them such great sport fish. Percichthids (bass and cod) may have pugnacious, aggressive adults but their juveniles are relative pussies compared to grunters. If you look at the historical distribution of fish in Australia grunters tend to be tropical and basses – cod subtropical and temperate – there was very little overlap between the two (Silver perch are one grunter that went all the way south) – and that is no accident, through evolutionary time it seems anywhere the grunters got to the Percichthids don’t do so well. There is one Percichthid that occurs in tropical north Queensland the Bloomfield Cod – which survives above a major fish passage barrier waterfall free from competition with any grunters – Yellow belly also occurred naturally in the Fitzroy on the boundary of the tropics. The point of all this is that if Sooties are becoming established in the Mary (which it seems they are) it may be the death knell for Mary River cod ever establishing natural breeding based recruitment. One of the existing issues identified for Mary Cod in the system is the large population of fork-tailed catties that inhabit the lower reaches from around Tiaro up to the mid catchment. Historically these same reaches held good populations of large cod which would have kept catties in check. Now small cod have to make it through the ‘predation bottleneck’ presented by the catfish. Small cod are like jelly beans to catties. It’s no accident that the success of cod stocking in terms of established populations has been greater in the upper reaches where lower temperatures limit catfish numbers than in the lower reaches where catfish abound. Sooties now represent a tightening of this predation bottle neck for the survival of young cod. I would love to have seen cod recover in the Mary main channel. The numbers have been increasing and fish can be encountered while chasing bass and other species – but now it may be they’ll just become a ghost species dependent upon stocking to keep them there – a poor substitute for a naturally breeding, recruiting, evolving population. The importance of looking after populations in sub catchments separated from the Mary main channel (Coondoo, Tinana) will be even more important now. I don’t know how established the Sooty population is something we should be asking our fishery agencies to check out (DAFF Sweetwater members?) – but if they are breeding my general belief with exotic/translocated fish is that money is wasted trying to control them once they’re established – only effective policy is to stop them getting there in the first place. That’s why we have translocation policies governing what species should be allowed to be stocked where. I know a lot of rec fishers don’t like such constraints. Those less concerned about ecological impacts all want to have their favourite sportfish available in their piece of water…”how cool would it be if we could catch such and such in our creek, dam etc..” – next time you hear such ravings please pull them up – there are real costs to putting the wrong fish in the wrong place. Part of the beauty of having regionally distinct fish communities is that you can travel to different places and experience different species – if we just spread everything everywhere we’ll just end up with a common blancmange of the hardiest most aggressive species everywhere and a loss of some real cool native species in the process. Here’s to the recovery of the Mary River Cod I know it is what I’d most like to encounter in the River – for sooties keep driving another 5 hours north – but if you do catch some Mary River Sooties – wack them in alfoil and throw them in the coals – eaten fresh out of the water – sooties are one of the best sweetwater eating species going! :youbeauty
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: aussiebasser on November 06, 2013, 11:53:49 AM
I saw a Farcebook link yesterday to some video and the tool was abusing people for making it public. Same fool had pics of MRC on his page during the closed season. There is a group that was actively, illegally stocking Sooties up near Imbil from what I've heard. Where do you draw the line at translocation though.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: Jim_Tait on November 06, 2013, 12:02:16 PM
Its a good question Dale, back in my days on Freshwater Mac the approach used was a combination of natural basin range of species, existing fish community integrity of river basin concerned and threats posed by the biology / natural recruitment capacity of the stocked species.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: Brad H on November 06, 2013, 10:46:59 PM
Sooties in the Mary :OMG definately time to get a yak and go fishing for ferals :Hunting)
Lets have a 'sack a sooty' comp :Clap)
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: elops on November 07, 2013, 10:03:22 AM
Thanks for starting this thread Jim an excellent summary of what is a very concerning situation. On a brighter note did not encounter any in the range of upper reaches that I covered through late summer and autumn this year nor did anyone else in any key habitat.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: elops on November 07, 2013, 10:12:36 AM
I saw a Farcebook link yesterday to some video and the tool was abusing people for making it public. Same fool had pics of MRC on his page during the closed season. There is a group that was actively, illegally stocking Sooties up near Imbil from what I've heard. Where do you draw the line at translocation though.
Got a collection of pics of various of these fools Dale from breeding season (its always closed season) some from places where they should not have been fishing at all, their day will come.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: aussiebasser on November 07, 2013, 10:44:45 AM
Is "six mile" in the Mary Steve?
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: Jim_Tait on November 07, 2013, 11:30:11 AM
Yeah it is Dale, and it is one of the strong holds for MRC in terms of refugial populations that appear to retain some natural breeding based recruitment capacity.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: elops on November 07, 2013, 12:16:38 PM
And the reason Dale asked Jim is because it is one of the populations that during the recent breeding season had a constant stream of these facebook fools who posted pics of their exploits on various media for the world to see for the sake of selling a few lures, to get their sponsors fishing shirt in a pic or the worst of all one forum which was running a competition for the largest Cod including the 2 protected species with cash prizes.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: Jim_Tait on November 07, 2013, 12:30:59 PM
Far canal - wasn't aware of that, is it just youthful ignorance? Hopefully we can help counter that through web forums like this.... ??? otherwise I hope a ton of bricks descends on the dheads C:-)
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: aussiebasser on November 07, 2013, 01:01:50 PM
Yup, that was why I was asking. The guys, one called Nick are raving about the Cod in the Mary and the Six Mile. I had a bit of a run in with one business about them promoting it and was told to pull my head in. Sorry to hi-jack Jim, back to habitat.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: Jim_Tait on November 07, 2013, 01:19:35 PM
You're not high jacking at all Dale, raising the conservation issues about fishing practices is what this forum is for. Don't get me wrong, I am guilty of enjoying cod 'by-catch' myself and would love to see the day when cod numbers had recovered so much that they could again be a legit rec target. I catch eastern cod in my local system while targeting bass. However, all of my MRC captures have been under DAFF permit as part of scientific surveys conducted for environmental impact studies. If I lived on the Mary River system that probably wouldn't be the case.
Cod breed in spring once water temps start to rise. So catching and disturbing cod once the bass season opens in stream systems that are known for their refugial cod populations (and not so for their bass) is poor form - as it risks egg resorption and disturbance/removal of males defending nests - if anglers could behave responsibly i.e. avoid these streams at critical pre & breeding season or all together it would be good, promoting the catch of endangered species is irresponsible. The end result if government was to take the angling risks to MRCs seriously would be to close such waterways to fishing altogether (as is the case for Coondoo & upper Tiana Cks)- something that reduces fisher access to water and something we could preferably avoid if responsible behaviour was practiced :-\
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: elops on March 07, 2014, 10:02:19 AM
Been meaning to add to this Jim. Got 2 Sooties approx. 30cm a fair way up a tributary a month or so ago :(
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: Jim_Tait on March 07, 2014, 10:05:03 AM
Must be breeding then hey?
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: UBK on March 07, 2014, 01:28:05 PM
I know of people regularly catching them too..
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: Jim_Tait on March 07, 2014, 01:39:28 PM
What tributary elops - not 6 mile or Obi Obi I hope ?
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: Sweetwater on March 07, 2014, 09:15:28 PM
If anyone reading this catches a Sooty Grunter in the Mary River ,please please please kill it. I couldn't believe it when talking to a bloke at Noosa a couple of weeks back reckons he releases them all because they're great fun to catch. A narrow minded, short sighted fool in my oppionion. Sooties are feral cats outside of their own range.
Sooties in the Mary could well be the last nail in the coffin of Mary River Cod. Once they're gone, they're gone. Ask any Thylacine....
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: elops on March 08, 2014, 10:52:56 AM
No another creek Jim. Private property with some very proactive adjoining landowners, sadly both caught right in the middle of a couple of nesting sites that are well guarded with no access. Killed and eaten along with a couple of Bass and Spangled Perch on the day, landowner rates them better than Bass but not as good as Spangles.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: SteveBurgess on April 25, 2014, 06:34:35 AM
On the topic of introduced northerners posing a threat to young Mary cod - I have noticed a lot of saratoga in the Mary over the last few years, to the extent that I would say it is the most common fish I see from the banks in many of the deep pools in the middle reaches. I would like to encourage anyone who catches this alien (to the Mary) to please please please NOT return them to the river. My major concern is that I suspect these critters to be pretty efficient hunters of young Mary River Turtle hatchlings, and I see them hanging around in the deep pools near turtle nesting sandbanks. Because they hang around near the surface, I often photograph them on the monitoring cameras we use to study Mary River Turtle.
I'd also like to reinforce the idea that there is nothing skilful about "anglers"pulling a craqnky male cod out from under his log or off the nest during breeding season. I reckon they would attack a sandshoe on a bit of rope. While our fishing heroes get a few trophy photos with their big cod, the poor bugger is stressed out by being pulled out of the water weekend after weekend (same fish, same log), all the time leaving the eggs unprotected, and eventually karking it from chronic stress. I wish people would leave the remnant wild population alone in the river, and only target them in stocked impoundments. I think that in the Mary it is much more heroic to target grunter and 'toga, and NOT return them to the river. You still get very good skilful fishing, AND you a doing a favour to some of the really special critters that only exist in the Mary system.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: BG on April 25, 2014, 02:32:38 PM
Well said Jim. It is good to see fellas like you Dale Steve and Elops keeping an eye on problems like this.
I tried to make a project out of the MRC several years ago to no avail.
Must admit my experience is limited but, what I did notice in the sum of it all is that there is very likely only one stream where they are definitely breeding and 'maybe' 3 others that you could compare to Russian Roulette when it comes to introduced species chewing them up.
And fellas that's it on planet earth, bit scary hey.
Keep up the good work.
Gordon
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: elops on June 18, 2014, 11:47:15 AM
Spent a bit of time recently in the catchment Jim here is a grab bag of Sooty info. Tom got 20 odd fish electrofishing at Tiaro 20cm to 50 cm recently. First one from Lake Macdonald around 2004 with several from below the wall during fish salvages since and caught and released in 6 mile in the last couple of years. Most interesting was several people told me that a hatchery was advertising fingerlings for sale in the local paper ........................................
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: Jim_Tait on June 18, 2014, 12:36:47 PM
Thanks for the info Steve, any word of small juveniles / sub adults?
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: elops on June 19, 2014, 11:43:19 AM
The 20 cm fish would be sub adult you would think, given the amount of time they have been there ? DNA otolith microchemical analysis study maybe ? no real point. Another population of non indigenous Grunters that is most likely established courtesy of Terapontids R Us.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: Jim_Tait on June 19, 2014, 11:57:03 AM
Maybe, the optimist in me thinks that breeding pop would include many more little guys less than and up to 100mm based on my electrofishing experience in sooty country - 200mm fish could be this year's stocking especially if fingerlings are being aggressively marketed into the basin - Jim
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: pills on July 05, 2014, 08:35:10 PM
I'm going to add my twenty cents worth here. While I agree completely with everyone that they don't belong in the Mary, and having just come back from the Burdekin where they do belong, they are an extremely aggressive fish, and yes they can decimate the cod population, but...... before we go out and start slaughtering them be aware at this point if you kill an undersized sooty or exceed the bag limit, you could be fined under the fisheries act, because at the moment there is nothing in the fisheries legislation requiring their removal from the Mary. As I said they are a threat to the cod population, but we only have ourselves to blame, it was man that reduced their population and destroyed their habitat in the first place, and it is mans influence in changing the river that it is now more a suitable habitat for sooty's than cod! Cod need deep holes etc, where sooty's thrive in the shallow runs that are common along the Mary. Not to mention that we are still legally through this current translocation policy stocking other species that don't belong in the Mary as well. Golden perch, Saratoga, Silver perch to name a few. While these species aren't as agressive as the sooty, they do compete with cod food and habitat, which as we know the cod are short on. I am especially worried about the numbers of Bass that are turning up in Obi Obi creek and Six Mile from the dams upstream, wouldn't these be having an impact on the remaining wild population of cod in these creeks? My point is yes while the sooty is an imediate threat, so are the other one's I have mentioned, probably more so at this point.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: Jim_Tait on July 05, 2014, 09:37:19 PM
Cod have evolved in conjunction with all the other species you mentioned except Saratoga - and they're more a specialist surface feeder and less aggressive generalist predator than sooties - while translocation of all natives out of their range is a worry full stop, - I still feel sooties (from an ecological science basis) have the greatest prospect of doing harm - and it would be a brave or ill informed fisheries officer who prosecuted anyone for knocking undersize sooties on the head - so bring on a test case if need be anybody....??
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: pills on July 05, 2014, 11:57:30 PM
Like I said, I do agree with all that Sooty's shouldn't be there, as for Mary river cod evolving with the other species, they have only evolved with Bass, not golden or silver perch, that is Murray cod, which may seem like splitting hairs, but Murray Cod seem a lot more resilient than the Mary Cod, just ask the one's trying to breed them. It may be that Murray being a larger system, which is a guess as I'm not a biologist. Mary River Cod, are as we will all agree struggling as it is, with out having to compete with other species. I'm not suggesting that we get rid of the others, as I'm sure there would be a lynching party outside my house if I did. What I was trying to say is there are a lot more problems for the cod as in habitat destruction, and fishing pressure than the Sooty Grunter. I was just amazed at how many forums are being devoted to it. Pity there wasn't as much of a commotion about the state of the river, and moves to do something about it. I grew up in Tinana on the Mary, so I have a special interest in all this, and am thrilled to see the diversity in the freshwater fishing that there is in the Mary now! Baroon Pocket dam was built right across some of the cods prime breeding ground, and it barely raised an eyebrow.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: mackdonalds on July 06, 2014, 12:15:01 AM
A fishing competition has just started showing up on the internet and it is running a round in the Mary River :'( I will not put it's name up here as I don't wish to promote it,imho there should be no comps run in the Mary River.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: pills on July 06, 2014, 12:29:13 AM
I agree, leave the comps in the Dams where they belong. It would be a nightmare to regulate anyway. As there are limited access points, and limited how many could effectivly fish a section of river...... A logistical nightmare!
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: Jim_Tait on July 07, 2014, 07:44:30 AM
Pills,
When I said cod evolved in the company of silvers and goldens (& bass) - I was being generic - as Eastern and Mary cod are relative Johnny come latelys (~1 million years?) in terms of evolution and the basic family traits e.g. life history strategies, reproduction, fercundity etc were set up long before they went east over the range - and these life history strategies have been shown in evolutionary time to cope with these other Percichthyid (family) predators but not too many pugnacious grunter (terapontidae) species - the only ones being silvers and spanglies (historically only in the northern most Murray Darling Basin).
BTW people have been concerned about the state of the Mary River for years - it was where Integrated Catchment Management was developed in Qld in teh early 1990's and there have been numerous projects dedicated to improving its state and the status of Cod (as you would no doubt be aware) - the cod has long been the mascot of the Mary River Catchment Coordinating Committee (MRCCC) - and there has been some recent evidence of gains being made interms of Cod numbers in the main Mary Channel and known sub catchment refugia - none of this is going to be helped by the establishment of self breeding populations of an extremely pugnacious novel predator like sooties - while other environmental pressures can ultimately be fixed of managed - the threat posed by an established population of feral predators is permanent - history would suggest.
When you say your thrilled by the freshwater fishing opportunities now available in the Mary I assume that also includes the sooties? Maybe this is part of your desire to place the threat posed by them in a less serious context than the ones they face from other sources??
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: pills on July 07, 2014, 11:08:44 PM
No I don't include Sooty's, even though thy are a fun fish to catch, I would rather see a river full of Mary river Cod. I regularly head up to Townsville to visit mum, and can catch all the sooty's I want. Had a ball recently on the Burdekin, on a kayak trip with a mate that lives up there. As I said I grew up in Tinana. My house backed onto the Mary, and there wasn't the diversity of freshwater fishing then back in the early 70's that there is today. Bass were virtually non existant back then, as were Cod. Barra occasionally turned up, but when they did, the pros came in and netted the lot. As with most feral fish, if they do, or are established, then they are probably here to stay. Fisheries should probably put them on the feral species list in the Mary so we can legally remove them. Apologies to anyone I insulted about the state of the river, as it a lot better than it was back in the 70's, but it still has a long way to go. My point was that the river is a perfect habitat for the Sooty at this point, due to it's relative shallow nature. Hopefully the river restoration will continue and the river can be restored to it's original beauty. The plight of our Cod is a struggle on so many levels, with the failure of the breading stock this season due to a virus, and with the rednecks still out there chasing the few wild breeding stocks left, it is daunting to say the least.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: SteveBurgess on October 15, 2014, 07:30:15 PM
Sad news today - confirmed large Tilapia taken from the Mary River near Tiaro. There was a report of a small Tilapia caught in Yabba Creek a few years ago but this is the worst news I've heard for the Mary for a while. Probably worth a new thread, because I reckon that we need to spread the word and find out if anyone else has picked up Tilapia in the Mary, and get some idea of the scope of the problem. Jim Tait - I reckon this puts our worries about Sooties and Toga in the Mary into perspective. What's worse this fish was photographed and returned to the river in ignorance. Could all the good people on this forum who want to do a favour for the Mary make sure that they and all their friends know what these ferals look like, and if they catch one, remove it from the river and report the incident to fisheries http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/fisheries/pest-fish/report-a-pest-fish-sighting (http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/fisheries/pest-fish/report-a-pest-fish-sighting)
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: Jim_Tait on October 16, 2014, 05:30:42 AM
Sad news Steve, but I feel ecologically that sooties as a pugnacious exotic (NB if we were in Europe there'd be three countries between the Mary and where sooties belong) predator may ultimately do more damage if established - Jim
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: SteveBurgess on October 18, 2014, 07:18:13 AM
Jim, I'm in total agreement with you about Sooties and Togas in the Mary. Just overwhelmingly disappointed with the additional news about Tilapia. Especially bad news for the last remaining freshwater mullet in the Mary I reckon.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: elops on October 18, 2014, 08:38:20 PM
At least no Barred Grunter from Terapontids R US.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: elops on October 19, 2014, 10:30:11 AM
There is also the cumulative effect over 15 years or so of ever increasing entrainments of Bass...................... a pugnacious exotic ?????????????
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: Novice on October 19, 2014, 01:00:30 PM
There is also the cumulative effect over 15 years or so of ever increasing entrainments of Bass...................... a pugnacious exotic ?????????????
Yeah but Steve, larger Marys LOVE eating Bass.
What's more detrimental, predation of young Marys by Bass? Or lack of larger finned fish for the adult Mary's to eat?
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: elops on October 21, 2014, 10:52:50 AM
Cant answer that question Dave.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: pills on December 05, 2014, 09:28:18 PM
Unfortunately the discovery of Tilapia in the mary will make the sooty problem pale in comparison! I have seen the water in the Ross River in Townsville black with schools of them. While the Barra up there grow fat on them, I don't think the Cod at this stage of their recovery could keep them in check. As far as Cod and Bass. They have lived in harmony for eons, I think it is more a case of balance, which nature seems to do well with. Unfortunately, with past habitat distruction and over fishing in the last century, has seen that balance upset if not destroyed!
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: Jim_Tait on December 09, 2014, 10:29:23 PM
Don't agree, not a fan of tilapia but don't think their fish community impacts in the Mary will be as great as Sootys becoming established - name one native species that has disappeared out of Ross River (or any other Australian river system) due to tilapia ??? I think Sootys established south of their range have a greater potential to push local fish species out especially juvenile cod and others e.g soft spined rainbows, pygmy perch - probably won't do juvenile lungfish any favours as well..... we'll see, for my money more song and dance should be made about the sooties than the tilapia...
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: Sweetwater on December 10, 2014, 07:50:44 PM
Don't agree, not a fan of tilapia but don't think their fish community impacts in the Mary will be as great as Sootys becoming established - name one native species that has disappeared out of Ross River (or any other Australian river system) due to tilapia ??? I think Sootys established south of their range have a greater potential to push local fish species out especially juvenile cod and others e.g soft spined rainbows, pygmy perch - probably won't do juvenile lungfish any favours as well..... we'll see, for my money more song and dance should be made about the sooties than the tilapia...
totally agree with you Jim. Sooty Grunter are a super agressive species, tilapia often seem quite inert by comparison from my observations.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: Sweetwater on December 10, 2014, 10:21:02 PM
And to see people releasing Sooty Grunter that have been caught in the Mary River shows poor judgement, lack of knowledge or just a blatant disregard for the river system & the future chances of Mary River cod and possibly Qld Lungfish as well.
See the video below by Jon Williams releasing Sooty Grunter as just one example. All sooty grunter caught in the Mary River system should be destroyed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltvC6AQEUZ8#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltvC6AQEUZ8#ws)
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: beau on December 10, 2014, 11:14:24 PM
Would love to know where that is
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: StevenM on December 11, 2014, 06:28:59 AM
Maybe it's time for a sooty hunt
I'm free next weekend
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: Barney on January 18, 2015, 07:19:25 AM
Just read this very interesting post and have to agree with Jim that Sooties in the Mary are not a happy situation.
I am unaware of the feeding habits or territorial behaviour of Tilapia , but do know that Saratoga [both species] predominantly feed in the upper water column. Sooties actively feed within all levels of a water column , from the surface to the rocks/gravel/timber below.
A loooong time ago l was an avid aquarist , having kept at various times 5 large fish [saratoga , barra , bass , cod , sooty] , and breeding [with permit] some rare smaller natives which were released back into the wild. To say that Sooties are 'aggressive' is rather an understatement. l fed the larger fish , yabbies , freshwater shrimp , prawns , pilchard pieces , ox heart , pellets and goldfish. Whilst the saratoga , Cod,Bass , Barra all have entertaining feeding babits , Sooties will literally 'smash' their prey against rocks/gravel/timber/glass without hesitation , the size of the prey being no issue whatsoever. A yabby hiding under a log , partially burrowed into sand/gravel , still had no chance of survival as l watched many times as the Sooty would lay on its side , fins paddking , as it dug out the yabby or just smashed it into the substrate.
Its worrying to think that people would intentionally release Sooties into the Mary , but what is done is done.
Maybe the state gov't can be lobbied to declare Sooties as noxious in the Mary system?
I have fished rivers down south that once held strong populations of Macquarie Perch. Trout put paid to that decades ago. Whilst l liked fishing for trout , l would have happily been throwing the fly/lure for Macquaries.
Maybe a 'coalition' of intersted parties could be formed to facilitate education/action/legislation to help deal with this issue? [Native fish clubs , fishing clubs , habitat associations etc?]
Barney.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: elops on January 18, 2015, 12:46:44 PM
Has anyone noticed that one of the tackle companies sponsoring this seems to be on pretty much EVERY video of illegal fishing that you see ?
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: aussiebasser on January 18, 2015, 06:18:01 PM
Which company Steve? Some don't have a lot of scruples.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: beau on January 18, 2015, 06:21:58 PM
Maybe more to do with these guys plugging a certain brand hopeing for some sort of sponsorship. They do make good jig heads tho..... :Hunting)
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: aussiebasser on January 18, 2015, 06:38:47 PM
I think if I ran Z-man or similar companies, I'd try to distance myself from illegal behaviour.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: pills on July 24, 2015, 11:26:46 AM
It was also distressing to see a video on utube the other day of a couple of guys intentionally chasing Cod in one of the Mary tributarys, where they are struggling to survive. I am sure that it is illegal to deliberatly target Mary river Cod in the Mary or any of it's tributarys?
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: Sweetwater on July 25, 2015, 12:21:05 AM
It was also distressing to see a video on utube the other day of a couple of guys intentionally chasing Cod in one of the Mary tributarys, where they are struggling to survive. I am sure that it is illegal to deliberatly target Mary river Cod in the Mary or any of it's tributarys?
You're correct.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: pills on July 26, 2015, 03:31:24 PM
If it isn't bad enough that Cod are under threat from introduced species, they also have to run the gauntlet of anglers breaking the rules and targeting them in tributaries of the Mary, where they are struggling to survive.
Title: Re: Sooties in the Mary - what prospects for Mary River Cod Recovery...?
Post by: aussiebasser on July 27, 2015, 07:46:01 AM
Seeing that reminds me of Matt Hansen's drink coasters