Sweetwater Fishing Forums
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Scott Mitchell on September 18, 2010, 10:13:32 AM
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Interested what your all using in regards to impoundment barra leader material now days - brand & strength ?
Thanks Scotto
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Hey Scott,
I've trusted in PennX Mono. Easy to tie knots with, and still pretty abrasion resistant.
In open water I drop to a 50 or 60lb leader but when I'm fish heavy timber it's 80lb that I use.
Dave
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Yeah jinkia mate 80 lb mostly 60 on the spin gear. A multi million long lining industry depends on it so hey who am I to argue...
I know snider is getting a run with a lot of guys too now.... whatever ya use you will gain conferdence with it and confedence is the main issue with all fishing gear....
Nath
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I usually run 30-40lb penn, blackmagic, or sometimes berkley when it is available. Mostly Penn.
Go up to 60lb in tough country.
I did use cajun leader a lot, but not stocked at my locals anymore. It was the best nice and soft.
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Hey Scott,
I've trusted in PennX Mono. Easy to tie knots with, and still pretty abrasion resistant.
In open water I drop to a 50 or 60lb leader but when I'm fish heavy timber it's 80lb that I use.
Dave
Sounds about right to me. I'll add "40ld in the Salt"
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I pretty much stick with Black Magic Flourocarbon now. It hasn't let me down in 30lb or 60lb.
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Dale what do you use on the Black Bass in PNG, knowing that they are tough, fierce, hard pulling fish as well?
Cheers Dave
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Thanks for the replies - heading of to Awonga for the week this morning & will report back ;)
Regards Scotto
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Dale what do you use on the Black Bass in PNG, knowing that they are tough, fierce, hard pulling fish as well?
Cheers Dave
I've been using Black Magic in 30lb and 60lb. The Penn 10X tends to go a bit yellow up there and is very visible. Riccard had a problem in a new river we're visiting in a couple of weeks. Real big fish were swallowing the poppers and biting him off on 80lb mono leader. I spent last night watching Black Knight and making up a heap of 8" leaders out of 124lb Piano wire. Let's see if they can bite through that.
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Scott,
We never use less than 80 lb Black Magic in the lake.
80-110lb in the sea.
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G'day Guys ,
up until now ,I've been using 60lb Jinkai , but after reading this I think I'll up it to 80lb . Getting gear sorted now to head up to Awoonga in 28 sleeps :D So it will be a good time to beef up the gear
cheers AL
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30-40 lb Jenkai
but then again I fish with a 1-3kg rod ;)
open water and weeds from the yak.
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Nothing but wind on leaders for me with 60 on spin and 80 baitcast in open to moderate country and in tiger country 100lb.
Best system I've ever used and wont go back to knots these cast sooooo well
Here's a link to the article I did on them on my site
http://www.frasercoastsportfishing.com/artman/publish/article_371.shtml
Paul
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Going to awoonga next weekend on the 26th, got 60lb and 80lb jinkai. i think ill be purchasing some wind on leaders though. any recommendations... will foxies stock them?
Cant wait to get up there!
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I always used 100lb jinkai, mainly becuase I could also use it for strainer posts and repairing breaks in fences. Someone sent me up some 100lb Galis????? Japanese I think. That's like wiping your bum with silk :thumbsup
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Depends on the location. Awoonga I normally start with 30lb, but have gone as light as 15. Lake Monduran or Proserpine (in tiger country) 30-60lb. Wild fish 30lb.
But it all depends on the country, in tight water where I suspect big fish, I upgrade a bit, but if in open water I like to keep it lighter for better castability.
In saying the above, I learnt a very good lesson while serving my time (for want of a better term) fishing with Harro years ago. He taught that the harder you pull, the harder a fish will commonly run. So if you're running extra heavy duty leader/line/drag a big barra will commonly hit the afterburners. If you go easy on them, they sometimes reciprocate. The compelling moment for me was when I had a horse barra on & it ran into snags, Harro had called for me to free spool on previous occasions (which I didn't do & got blown away) & on this occasion I did as told & was amazed to see this barra stop dead in its tracks. :OMG This allowed us to chase the barra into the snags on the Minn Kota to get back into direct contact with it & resume on 1:1 terms.
In a nut shell, if a fish feels lots of pull, the fish will give lots back. Lighter pressure from lighter drags can often give the same results in a fight. In tight country with big fish I've seen 200lb leader destroyed so going heavy duty isnt always the answer. The advantage of staying a bit lighter is that you can cast alot longer and more accurately thus giving more hookups & your arm is better at days end.
It is possibly one of the hardest things to learn to do. The natural reaction is to lock up harder when a fish is about to get into a snag; to free spool a fish in this situation takes a some re-programing of the thumbs....
BTW- it works on other species as well. ;)
Thanks for the lesson Harro. :youbeauty
fitz..
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I ended up sticking with Jinkai Plus in 80lb & used double mono crimps ( Yozuri crimp tool ) to connect lures & slim beauty to connect to braid - I will have to perfect those wind on however as I believe you can't get a neater system.
Thanks Scotto
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Well Fitz, that lesson from Harro was chanelled through to me via your good self and I still use this technique when required. Free spool is a great tool :)
Hey, while we are on the subject, I also remember you showing me for the first time quite some time ago at Faust how to throw slack line at a jumping barra and the reasoning behind it. We also used the same technique with surface Bassing at Maroon :)
I was having trouble keeping large fish on-line when they jumped and it was explained that lots of fish are lost by over-enthusiastic anglers ripping the lures right out of thier open mouths when the fish was in mid flight. There are 2 schools of thought attached to this technique but I guess the trick is to know when the slack line method is best applied. :)
It is interesting to see in real terms how simple little techniques get passed on ......Thanks Harro ;)
Randall.
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I'm using Schneider 55lb mono (0.8mm) ....... After a 2 year search trying just about every type leader material & system. The Schneider is with out a doubt the most abrasion resistent. From a personal perspective , I have not lost a barra to a worn leader in 18 months since I changed ........ many were before that.
While what Fitz & Harro have said is very true ...... It does require an element of luck & more than a bit of skill - but depending on the fish , its mindset and how it reacts - you will be rolling the dice. Leaders can be easily worn by a lively (jumping) 60cm barra even when fished lightly - a big fish with thrashing head shakes on 2kg of drag will do the same.
So why go to a gun fight with only a pocket knife ........ you just never know what you will hook up with & the last thing you want to be thinking about is will the leader hang in there.
Chris
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Why use a bazooka when a simple bullet will do..... Over done hardware can significantly detract from castability & flexability (shock absorbing). Have seen gunned up anglers with gear that looks like its more suited to bottom bashing arrive in tiger country and couldn'ty cast a good shadow let alone stand a chance of hooking a fish, all because they couldn't cast 10 feet. Can't land a fish if you can't hook one. ::)
Each to their own...I've work on charter boats, stacks of the things & I know what system can & does work better, apllied correctly. It doesn't always work, but it's been a god send in some scenarios. If you've not tried it, or can't get your head around trying it, you'll probably remain blissfully unaware. Ignore the advice or learn from & adapt it to your own style.
I mean really, we're only talking barra here. They don't possess super-powers, let's not build them up to be something more than they are here. Pound for pound they are quite average fighters compared to many others.
Regards,
fitz..
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It would be interesting to poll barra guides and tournament anglers and see exactly what leader system and poundage that they use. Mind you diameter is the key (imho) - not breaking strain.
There is no need to build a barra up - the reality is that their sandpaper like mouth is what will do the damage to the leader or the gill rakers..... and yes the harder you pull the faster the wear or easier the leader can be cut .
Keep in mind , we have a fish that can scuff a leader on a missed strike - so is it an elephant gun approach ?
I too have caught barra on light leader (my best 106cm on 25lbFC) - mind you 2 casts later a slightly bigger fish went through that same leader in literally a blink of an eye. ( get a hinge hookup and you could probably land a 120cm barra on 10lb leader)
Using finesse type tactics ..... downsizing , has it's time and place! - would I suggest these as a mainstream approach to some inexperienced barra fishoe ? ....... no
Just like the need to upgrade trebles on lures ...... - Don't & Its roll the dice and hope for the best - regardless of how hard you pull against a fish and how much drag is applied -
Chris
PS - The lure pictured below had its trebles opened up in a free spool situation at Awoonga recently ....... finesse presentation meets big fish.. :'( & btw the hooks were upgraded to the maximum the lure could handle without killing the action & allowing the lure to suspend
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Chris
PS - The lure pictured below had its trebles opened up in a free spool situation at Awoonga recently ....... finesse presentation meets big fish.. :'( & btw the hooks were upgraded to the maximum the lure could handle without killing the action & allowing the lure to suspend
Recon that could be a result of too heavy gear/drag. Reading some info above and in past from the likes of Harro I've caught and seen caught fish with standard hardware. heavy handed tactics give put more strain. Where's that big lake barra dvd where they showed meter+ faust barras getting caught in the sticks on light rods and standard hardware?? It was only shown in a few info nights around the place
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The video was one Randall did on our trip north before most of the self appointed experts had heard about Impoundment barra. The fisherman was Fitz who arrived off the plane with his bass gear and proceded to pull this fish from the trees in our first session, I watched it all through the lens of the video while Fitz commentated. It was a 107, and it was in tiger country.
(http://www.sweetwaterfishing.com.au/images/107Barra.jpg)
My first Barra that trip was 73cm and I got him on a Loomis Crankbait CBR903, Abu 2500C and 14lb Fireline with a knotted dog leader. Anglers are catching fish every day in Faust, Awoonga, Teemburra etc. on Rex Hunt combo's from Kmart with 15lb mono. The only trick is that they cannot put enough pressure on the fish to make it go hard, so they lead it slowly to the boat.
For me, I'm not all that concerned about losing the odd fish, although, honestly, I have never lost a Barramundi to a chaffed leader or a straightened hook. As Fitz said, the most important thing is getting the lure in it's face.
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Never lost a baramundi to a chaffed leader or straightened hook, really? Thats some good angling all right!
Im a little curious, how many trips do you do a month/year/the last 5 years? How many big, active Australian pond barra have you recently landed in tight country on light leaders. Now Im no expert, but I'd consider anything over 90 as big and active, they are often the most troublesome to put in the net, big and quick enough to cause a fisho grief, small enough to not knock up to quickly. Is it just a percentage game, you dont catch a lot of these fish, so percentage of lost fish to leader/hook failue is low, or in your case 0%? Statistics statistics statistics.
What do the guides use, after all, they are on the water day in day out and one would assume that their bread and butter depends upon ensuring the client lands the fish? After all, it is about a successfull outcome to the hunt, balancing subtle presentations to fool wary fish against the demand on gear to then successfully land that fish! I would assume they try to maximise the odds of that happening, are they fishing finese leaders and light hooks to do that?
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BTW, Im not having a go, or interested in a sh%t fight, Im just curious as to what first hand recent experiences you base your comments on?
If your up there smackin fish weekly, or even monthly, I will stand corrected?
If you go 2 or 3 times a year, I'll stick with what I know works for me, and dis-regard your comments?
Brian
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Never lost a baramundi to a chaffed leader or straightened hook, really? Thats some good angling all right!
Im a little curious, how many trips do you do a month/year/the last 5 years? How many big, active Australian pond barra have you recently landed in tight country on light leaders. Now Im no expert
Hi Brian,
If your question is at me, yes I have lost barra to a busted leaders and straightened hooks, that's quite rediculous to think otherwise. The percentage or ration of this happening is very low these days in comparison to when I was younger, dumber & tried to pull every fishes head off. I've found my bustoffs are more like getting the main line busted as opposed to straightening hardware and chaffed leaders. Again, the heavier your gear, the more pressure you can put on, the more you can stress hardware & chaff leaders. If you don't understand it & try it, you'll never know any different.
Trips? These days being southern based, not monthly, definately several per year & I've got no idea on the number in last 5 years, never enough.
Does that help? ;)
fitz..
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Fitz, thanks, but the question was aimed at Aussiebasser.
honestly, I have never lost a Barramundi to a chaffed leader or a straightened hook.
cheers
brian
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yep, also a fan of the free spool and softly softly method, in the right instances.
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May as well wade in, it's all good -
The talk of bringing a knife to a gun fight is a good demonstration of text book rhetoric getting in the way of real world facts. It's well understood amongst practitioners that a knife nearly always beats a holstered gun in 10 metres or under. Broad statements don't take into account specifics of a situation.
I use 100lb leader, I've had that wear through before, hooks bend even singles. Bugger me even had the kevlar of an assist hook wear through the other night, all on barra. Pulling a fish kicking and screaming to the boat is what floats my boat. I set my gear up to suit and wear both the jollies and consequenses of my actions.
I've also fished the softly softly technique just to do it, even stuck the rod in a holder and let the things free swim around for a while to deal with another rod or just to see what happens. I'ts just like having a dog on chain testing the boundaries and deciding to stay within them. Same fish, treat them different and they react like night and day.
That said it makes sense to set your gear for the fishing technique that suits you the best from a physical and mental perspective. If you try and emulate what someone else does without considering your own preferences you could end up being a round block in a square hole so take care ;).
Note my favourite lure atm, kevlar string and 10/0s, leader 100lb . Some would look and quietly scoff. Who gives a toss, it suits me :thumbsup
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Never lost a baramundi to a chaffed leader or straightened hook, really? Thats some good angling all right!
Im a little curious, how many trips do you do a month/year/the last 5 years? How many big, active Australian pond barra have you recently landed in tight country on light leaders. Now Im no expert, but I'd consider anything over 90 as big and active, they are often the most troublesome to put in the net, big and quick enough to cause a fisho grief, small enough to not knock up to quickly. Is it just a percentage game, you dont catch a lot of these fish, so percentage of lost fish to leader/hook failue is low, or in your case 0%? Statistics statistics statistics.
What do the guides use, after all, they are on the water day in day out and one would assume that their bread and butter depends upon ensuring the client lands the fish? After all, it is about a successfull outcome to the hunt, balancing subtle presentations to fool wary fish against the demand on gear to then successfully land that fish! I would assume they try to maximise the odds of that happening, are they fishing finese leaders and light hooks to do that?
Sorry Brian, after you've publicly made your opinion of me quite clear in the past, I really don't feel the need to justify myself to you. I've only caught 10 Barra this year. 8 were over a metre and two were high 80's low 90's.
As Dick said, do whatever floats your boat, as long as it isn't trying to call someone out on a public web site. I fish how I like to fish, some agree with me, some don't. Sadly, that's your problem, not mine. Demanding that the guides tell you what they use is following in the footsteps of your old mate.
I have two brothers, both are pretty good fishoes, but like the majority, don't frequent the internet. My brother in Victoria mainly fishes for Murray Cod, his best is 85lb. The one who live up here visits Awoonga at least once a year, his best is 127cm. Neither use leaders at all. The 85lb Cod was taken on 35lb Spiderwire, and the Barra was on 50lb Bionic (yep bright pink). The Barra was taken solo and took over 30 minutes to land. I'm not sure that I have the right to tell them that they're doing it all wrong. Here's a pic of two 114s they got at Awoonga. No leaders used.
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That said it makes sense to set your gear for the fishing technique that suits you the best from a physical and mental perspective. If you try and emulate what someone else does without considering your own preferences you could end up being a round block in a square hole so take care
Spot on there Dick,I'm beleiver in Each To Their Own,if your comfortable and Confident in what your using you WILL catch more fish.
I started chasing impoundment Barra 10 or so years ago and started with 55lb Schnider and lost fish then I went to 125lb Super Braid and lost fish and now use wind on leaders made with 80lb Jerry Brown hollow braid with Penn 10x in 40,60,80 and 100 lb and still lose fish there is no perfect leader system I believe,and most of the time it's in the hands of the fish gods wether they are landed or not.
Paul
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That's a good perspective fellas. :tick And, there's no two situations the same. Recon adaptability is paramount.
Thanks for the insight. :thumbsup
fitz..
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Yep, I would have put money on Fitz dropping that fish . One of many more lured and landed on lighter gear. Faust was pretty full and accurate casts right up into 2 ft of water in between freshly floooded green trees being the only method to get a strike.Barra alley back then was a free for all in the right conditions :) We fished mainly lighter but were only really adapting to the local conditions to get the explosive hits where a lure was not ment to be . No rocket science, just fishing and enjoying the chalenge of getting the lure on the dinner plate at 20 mtrs. I was never one for upgrading trebles. I`ve lost a few by staightened hooks, but not many. I`m not going to lose any sleep over it....It`s fishing and dropping fish is not the end of the world. Better to have hooked and dropped than never to hooked at all. Ivè allways used Pen 10X. Have done so for the last 10 yrs and more so ever since I had a yarn to Jack Erskine at one of the early Barra comps at Faust. I did go through a Knotted Dog stage but due to my hatred of clips, went back to the 10X. Ivè lost a few bigger fish to abrasion through 60-80lb but then again, I was probably putting too much hurt on the fish and he reacted badly. :) No problem, its fishing and you need to expect this.
Each to thier own truth I reckon. In the meantime, get out there and throw lures in the water. :D
Randall.
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Sorry Brian, after you've publicly made your opinion of me quite clear in the past, I really don't feel the need to justify myself to you. I've only caught 10 Barra this year. 8 were over a metre and two were high 80's low 90's.
As Dick said, do whatever floats your boat, as long as it isn't trying to call someone out on a public web site. I fish how I like to fish, some agree with me, some don't. Sadly, that's your problem, not mine. Demanding that the guides tell you what they use is following in the footsteps of your old mate.
I have two brothers, both are pretty good fishoes, but like the majority, don't frequent the internet. My brother in Victoria mainly fishes for Murray Cod, his best is 85lb. The one who live up here visits Awoonga at least once a year, his best is 127cm. Neither use leaders at all. The 85lb Cod was taken on 35lb Spiderwire, and the Barra was on 50lb Bionic (yep bright pink). The Barra was taken solo and took over 30 minutes to land. I'm not sure that I have the right to tell them that they're doing it all wrong. Here's a pic of two 114s they got at Awoonga. No leaders used.
Thanks Dale, based on that I'll stick with what works for me then.
Apologies to any guides that fell I demanded infomation - my personal opinion is if you want a fast tracked education from a guide - go pay for it.
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Recon that could be a result of too heavy gear/drag. Reading some info above and in past from the likes of Harro I've caught and seen caught fish with standard hardware. heavy handed tactics give put more strain. Where's that big lake barra dvd where they showed meter+ faust barras getting caught in the sticks on light rods and standard hardware?? It was only shown in a few info nights around the place
No heavy drag mate ......... NO DRAG AT ALL - I got the hook up in a narrow creek bed .... hooked up it felt like a cat fish swam straight towards me till it popped its head up at the boat to say "hi" before swiming under the boat at which stage I was on my knees with the rod plunged into the water & the reel in free spool with only light thumb pressure applied to avoid an over run - no big run or jump ....... but the hooks were opened because of jaw opening pressure .
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back to leaders though - Are we trying to answer the original question in a thoughtful and practical way ?..... It's a genuine question from someone who has not done a lot of impoundment barra fishing. Yeh sure what Dick has said is quite true ...... whatever floats your boat. If you are into muscling big fish in heavy timber...... you need the broomstick rod , heavy braid & leaders ...... or you can go down the path like blokes that chase records and troll 1 & 2kg pretest in open water and bore the fish to submission.
Offering practical information which will serve an angler well is what we should be doing ...... light leaders & fine wire hooks would certainly fall into the advanced category if not "trick" fishing - blown fish & tears can only come from some of the stuff that gets thrown around and offered up as good information.
I'm not saying that I have all the answers - but I can say that having fiddled with so many configurations , brands , poundage etc ...... I went from regular blown / worn leaders to none over 18 months (55lb - 0.8mm Schneider Klear) ...... including some extended fights where fish had to be unstitched - something that would not be possible if lighter leaders were used.
Yes .... you can catch big barra on bass gear - but it is not practical & certainly not for the inexperienced.
Chris
PS - Dale ..... No one is demanding to know what guides are using as you state - but I can just about bet that they are not using <40lb in general impoundment barra situations. ...... probably a 0.8mm (55-80lb) would be standard
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Thanks Dale, based on that I'll stick with what works for me then.
Apologies to any guides that fell I demanded infomation - my personal opinion is if you want a fast tracked education from a guide - go pay for it.
Thanks for sharing your preferences with us. Oh, hang on, you didn't. The original poster asked for info on Barra Leaders, as did Franke who resurected this post. Most people posted their experiences and preferences. Your posts consisted of:
Never lost a baramundi to a chaffed leader or straightened hook, really? Thats some good angling all right!
Im a little curious, how many trips do you do a month/year/the last 5 years? How many big, active Australian pond barra have you recently landed in tight country on light leaders. Now Im no expert, but I'd consider anything over 90 as big and active, they are often the most troublesome to put in the net, big and quick enough to cause a fisho grief, small enough to not knock up to quickly. Is it just a percentage game, you dont catch a lot of these fish, so percentage of lost fish to leader/hook failue is low, or in your case 0%? Statistics statistics statistics.
What do the guides use, after all, they are on the water day in day out and one would assume that their bread and butter depends upon ensuring the client lands the fish? After all, it is about a successfull outcome to the hunt, balancing subtle presentations to fool wary fish against the demand on gear to then successfully land that fish! I would assume they try to maximise the odds of that happening, are they fishing finese leaders and light hooks to do that?
BTW, Im not having a go, or interested in a sh%t fight, Im just curious as to what first hand recent experiences you base your comments on?
If your up there smackin fish weekly, or even monthly, I will stand corrected?
If you go 2 or 3 times a year, I'll stick with what I know works for me, and dis-regard your comments?
Brian
Fitz, thanks, but the question was aimed at Aussiebasser.
honestly, I have never lost a Barramundi to a chaffed leader or a straightened hook.
cheers
brian
yep, also a fan of the free spool and softly softly method, in the right instances.
Thanks Dale, based on that I'll stick with what works for me then.
Apologies to any guides that fell I demanded infomation - my personal opinion is if you want a fast tracked education from a guide - go pay for it.
Read this bit again
BTW, Im not having a go, or interested in a sh%t fight,
You had no opinions to offer the original posters, so what exactly were you trying to do?
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I reckon theres an argument for too light and theres an argument for too heavy.
The fun part is playing within these parameters. There is no right or wrong. I know for a fact that Fitz and Dale have been known to lock up drags on 50lb spools and tough it out just for the fun of it. Doesn`t everybody? :) Theres a time and place for all tackle to be used.
Randall.
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Geez Dale, thats a lot of effort youve put into all that quoting! Relax and stop picking the eyes out of everything.
I could do the same, but Im not interested, so leave it be.
Like I said, Im not an expert, or a self annoited expert, or an instant Monduran expert, Im just a mug punter. Thats why I generally dont offer advice, or lecture on the do and donts, or negatively critique others input on here. I leave that for posters such as your self.
For what its worth, I use 60 & 80 10X, or 55 Schneider, no doubles, just leader to braid, up-grade on hooks and trebles inc Owners, Halco fish rings, decoys and VMC 6X as required. Works for me - most times.
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Geez Dale, thats a lot of effort youve put into all that quoting! Relax and stop picking the eyes out of everything.
I could do the same, but Im not interested, so leave it be.
Like I said, Im not an expert, or a self annoited expert, or an instant Monduran expert, Im just a mug punter. Thats why I generally dont offer advice, or lecture on the do and donts, or negatively critique others input on here. I leave that for posters such as your self.
For what its worth, I use 60 & 80 10X, or 55 Schneider, no doubles, just leader to braid, up-grade on hooks and trebles inc Owners, Halco fish rings, decoys and VMC 6X as required. Works for me - most times.
I love your modesty Brian but dont sell yourself short ....... those that know you - know your ability and your application of that knowledge on the dam (Mondy) .....
Chris
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I have been watching this thread with interest. Funny how some comments are taken completely out of text from how they were intended...
We have tried various barra leaders over the last four years including Jack Erskine's Twisted Leaders, Penn 10X, Black Magic Supple Trace , Black Magic Tough Trace, Black Magic Fluorocarbon and Schneider Klear...
At one stage or another all, except Schneider (which has only been used in the last three trips), have been abraded through by rampaging barra - even when going gently on fish in open water. I believe that if a barra is deep hooked in a sensitive spot (or is just plain cranky) then it will abrade through your leader with ease in very short time...
I read here just recently that Johnny Mitchell never uses less than 80lb Black Magic leader when taking clients out...
Kyle still prefers 60lb or 80lb Black Magic Supple Trace while I like the 55lb Schneider Klear. Just our preferences...
Regs
Pete
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Interested what your all using in regards to impoundment barra leader material now days - brand & strength ?
Thanks Scotto
Hi Scott,
To help answer part of your question, I've added a poll to your topic. Here's hoping it helps get a broad spectrum of feedback from those who don't type a reply.
The results will only be shown to those who have voted.
Cheers,
fitzy..
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Some very interesting views published here.
I am not an expert as I only visit the dams ( Mondy or Awoonga) for a week once a year and I only troll the main basins due to age and physical ability. ( No way can I stand up and cast particually on a windswept shore)
I use a home made twisted leader made up of 4 strands of 14 lb line that Matt Frazer demoed one night at Fishhead and never have had a leader failure.
I have had one instance of one strand of the 4 breaking but luckily no fish lost.( Fish went under boat and rubbed leader on keel}
Another question what length leader does everyone use. Mine are around 4 feet long.
At another seminar at fishead Eric Grell advocated only using a leader around 1 foot long as that is all you need to clear the gill rakers.
I do believe that if you intend to release a fish to fight another day you should be using heavier tackle so the fish can be boated and released fairly quickly.
Last week at Mondy we watched someone battle a metery for around half an hour on 20lb braid and then spent a fruitless hour trying to get the fish to swim away.
Cheers
Ray
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Hi Ray
Leader length ....... good question & you should get some interesting answers.
I'm certainly with Eric on the short leader - enough to get past the gill rakers. :youbeauty
Short leaders also allow minimal interference with a lures action when heavy ones are used. I also like that you can keep the leader knot outside the tip eliminating that annoying rattling through the guides (specially when the rod is fitted with small guides) -
The down side of a 12-18 inch leader is that you only get a couple of lure changes & handling a big fish when on your own is more difficult.
Chris
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This going to sound like a dumb question but I want to know what killed wire leaders? Assume answers include:
- wire is too visible /spooks fish particularly in heavy fished waters
wire limits freedom of lure action
wire is too difficult to attach as a wind on leader to braid lines
I used to always use black plastic coated 'weld wire' or such can't recall its exact name and we (dad and I ) came up with some pretty deadly knots that were finalised using a lighter to fuse the plastic together - used such leaders for 20 years of Gulf barra fishing and never had one fail catching 1000's of barra including big mumas though occasionaly they'd get shredded during a fight and you'd replace them afterwards. When I got back from a couple year stint of working in PNG - braid lines were starting to come in and I followed suit in changing to mono leaders cause I got looked at like a dumb bum for continuing to use wire - beside the peer pressure factor I was attracted to the wind on smoothness of mono as I used to always join my wire to a small swivel.
Earlier this year while fishing with Harro my daughter loss a 1m+ barra after it bit through the 60lb mono leader - and it was suggested I should of been using at least 80lb monoi for the class of fish in Awonga - but it got me too thinking - It would have never bit through on my old wire leaders.. and I suppose I dont really belive the suggestion that black wire leaders spook fish or seriously affect lure action - so why dont I use them again? can you tie nots like albrights or universals straight to wire leaders to make them wind on? - gonna try next time - any advice? ta - Jim
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Before I went to PNG this year, Riccard told me he'd been bitten off by some really big Bass in the Kulu river using 80lb Flouro. I went and got some 120lb piano wire and made a dozen 8" leaders. I tried them on a couple of occaisions, and others in the boat were catching fish and I got zip. Changed back to flouro and I got fish. We went bottom bouncing one night and I used the same bait as the other six on board. They used mono and I used wire. They got bit off a couple of times when some barracuda moved in, but I didn't get a bite all night. I know some of the guides at Awoonga went through a phase of using wire, but they don't seem to now. I wonder if they noticed the same thing?
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A guy survived 77 days on a floating raft without much food or water.
The next crew lost at sea with more supplies didn't make it through the first week.
There will always be extreme cases- but common success for metre long barra captures in lakes- based on thousands of fish caught by anglers on 'accross the board techniques and situations' isn't a light leader scenario.
I once heard a guy say he has never lost a barra that struck his lure. I replied nicely with a question, "Well, you haven't caught many barra then have you?" He said "No!"
Considering many modern lake barra captures are dominated by soft plastic lures with single hooks- it allows greater circumstance where the lure is inhaled deeply. Lighter leaders fail here.
HB lures and more lip- hooked connections will see more barra landed on lighter leaders- but who know's what monster will jump on next. 80 lb black magic has served us well in more than enough situations to keep it as number 1 for this black duck. I've had to re-tie a lure after a missed strike from a barra on 80 lb leader, let alone from what happens during the fight. Amped up fish can chaffe/cut 80 within a second on the strike. I lost two lures like that in two casts about a month ago. A rare case, yes, but that's barra. Is there a better leader destroyer than a barra, that can still wreck a leader in the dying stages?
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Considering many modern lake barra captures are dominated by soft plastic lures with single hooks- it allows greater circumstance where the lure is inhaled deeply. Lighter leaders fail here.
HB lures and more lip- hooked connections will see more barra landed on lighter leaders- but who know's what monster will jump on next.
A very pertinant point JM. So, a question about leader should include main method to be used. I'm no stranger to barra on frangers, but I will say that my main method of attack is with suspenders.
Thanks for the jolt in thinking... :thumbsup
fitz..
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but I will say that my main method of attack is with suspenders.
fitz..
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I avoid barra fishing with fitz. He is not a pretty sight in suspenders!
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Haha...left yourself wide open for that one Fitz.....you knew it was coming :)
RG
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Haha...left yourself wide open for that one Fitz.....you knew it was coming :)
RG
Yeah yeah I know.... ::)
Save a pod of whales.... nobody cares,
Plant a million trees.... nobody remembers,
But do one undie run & nobody forgets....... :-X
Back to the topic..... JM raised a good point about the difference between fishing with frangas & hardbods.
On the whole, apparently I fish too light, which I tend to agree with. Maybe I need to go back & rethink how I fish, it appears I've got it all wrong. Over the weekend I was looking at the gear I've got for cod fishing next week, the heaviest leader I've got is 40lb. Bearing in mind I don't own a rod over 4kg, not a reel with a drag better than the same, I might need to go shopping for some leader 10 times this amount. (Not being sarcastic, I'm serious, but still don't see the logic or need).
Cheers,
fitz..
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You do fish light Fitz...right across a broad range of target species. I think your success rate of landing fish may be due to a big slice of natural talent :)
I have always loved watching you calmly deal with a fiesty fish. Like I said in an earlier post, It`s knowing when to apply pressure and when to throw slack.
I still reckon you need to buy yourself a barra rod ;D
Randall.
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Bah humbug to mono leaders! ;), I reckon we've all been duped by leader salesmen, caught barra for a million years on plastic coated wire so I can't belive that they have changed their behaviour in recent decades to suddenly start being sus of lures with wire attached - especially black plastic coated wire with minimum use of other terminals (swivels, clips etc) in the dim water conditions of most impoundments and other natural water you chase them in - maybe in cystal clear fresh rivers or gin clear estuaries there is a case to be made for the stealth afforded by clear mono but otherwise I doubt it! Back in the day (70s-80s), we used to raise eyebrows if anyone claimed to be serious about catching barra but didn't use a wire leader - 'they'll bust you off you know' - either by deep inhaling or via gill cutters - I think there is a case for revisiting the use of flexible plastic coated wire in terminal tackle - don't get me wrong, I love the finess of clear, flexible mono for my lighter fishing - bass, cod etc but I've lost barra just once or twice too many times on mono leaders not to question why we've all gone that way and lets face it 80lb mono in terms of flexibility is no flasher than 40-60lb plastic coated weld wire. The main attraction I've had to mono terminals is that streamlined joiner knots allow them to wind on past the join unlike the swivel joins I used to use for leader-line connections - so I've been mucking around with knots and attached photos show my best yet outcome. I've used a heat fused double hitch each end (half a hitch either side of the lure) and wrapped and heat fused the tag back onto the leader (don't worry these knots don't come undone - used them for a good 20 years including big fish) - I've just blood knotted the braid double onto the terminal end and it seems to work good - breaking strength is near enough as good as the line and the knot compresses nicely through the runners when casting and retrieving making it a 'wind on' leader - I'll just have to go a blood it on something decent to give it some street cred - PNG next week maybe - watch this space!! :thumbsup
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Jim,
There are a lot of early day methods and lures that still hold their place.
I think mono has taken over in the versatility sector. In the barra lakes, it's common to swap from a heavy weighted softy to a very light, finely balanced soft lure that swims on it's tippy toes. The next lure tied on could be an ultra-light surface lure that is rigged and tuned to match a lighter and shorter mono leader so it stays within a mm section on the surface. (Finesse presentation).
A length of decent wire would kill their action.
All of these lures can be swapped in the blink of an eye- on the same mono leader system without interference.
Light wires could be used to suit, but work hardening takes place ( snapping off) on the many repetitive casts, placing wire in the same category as mono - still not perfect.
For repetitive cast and retrieve situations (6 inch nilsy), or a medium weight lure, wire would still be a goer.
That's my two bobs worth- no perfect leader system for every situation.
Johnny
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Appreciate the informed comments Johnny - can see that for flexibility the mono system has advantages and have learnt in local hard fished estuaries that lighter finesse mono leader systems out do more clunky terminals - suppose I was thinking of application more to the repetitive minimum lure change type application you refer to, where you flog the water to foam with a proven favourite SP or HB waiting for the threshold cast that finally convinces the buggers to nail it!
Anyway I thought all you flash guide mob carried one rig per presentation type so you didn't have to change lures mid action anyway! ;)
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Hahahaha...flash Guide Mob.....Hey Johnny, never heard you labelled as this mate :D
Leaders: I gave a piece of 125lb braid a go for a leader several years back. I think Paul Dolan gave me the heads up. I used it for a couple of months when I was frequenting the barra dams a tad more regularly and it never let me down. (But I only fought 3-4 average sized barra on it) the 125lb stuff could be scrapped heavily across timber with no real detrimental effect. Barra gill rackers may be a different proposition though :)
I think the principle has merrit. 125lb braid is thick as a slice of raisin toast....but really strong!!
Maybe Dales Cod Fishing Brothers have got the right idea tying lures directly to their braided lines?? I`m sure there are applications where this method is best.
Randall.
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Jim,
I'm definitely not a good representation of the word 'flash'. Throw in 'Genuine Aussie Yobbo' in dab clothes with a couple of simple rods and a few boxes of varied lure designs and that'd suit.
I do believe anglers can get caught up with too much jazzy tackle, boats and the like- forgetting about the basic fishing fundamentals which drive most success. We only have to use the words
"Taylor Brothers" once again to put the point in neon lights.
This is the 5th year in a row, where they have blasted the barra competition field with more first or second places than any other anglers, taking out 'angler of the year' again, using simple strategies and applying them, using ideas that are old school among some modern designed lures and simple cast and retrieve presentations. I know your fishing history, well some of it, and the twins follow lots of the same style of approach- never forgetting that the fish is just a fish, and a lure is just that. They think of boats as basic platforms, and a mode of transport. They fish the whole history book, not just the last few raved pages. The brothers keep alive how important 'all' fishing knowledge is- and as you mentioned, the 'wire leader'- it has been microscoped by Cy and Kerrin, along with everything else that has influence.
This is again another year where they have rammed home their superior skills as fishing strategists, anglers, and for me, 'listeners'. They haven't won with the notion of fast boats, big motors, latest and greatest items of model number 2351/222.C56 tied to a 339.775t1g matched with a xyz666 which goes against the grain of some perceptions.
That means very little as you know too well.
All of the pioneers of barra angling in Australia can take a bow- modern guys winning with a strong link to history and basics mixed with some A-class front running info.
Johnny Mitchell
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Hi all,
I have watched this topic grow and grow over the past week or so :thumbsup I gotta say I bare no knowledge that could be of use in this topic other than I cant wait to nail my first impoundment barra!!
I must admit that I like Johnny M's last post and suscribe to the same theories that the Taylor twins do in relation to flash boats etc. Simple gear for a simple fella (me)
In saying that I am going to add all of the breaking strains of leader material that have been mentioned in this topic and divide that by the total no. of breaking strain posts to get an average breaking strain and start there. The diverse range of posts in relation to this topic highlights one of the greatest thing about fishing in any form, that is it is you against the fish and with the advice of other as well as your own ideas you will soon find what works for you. I guess we are lucky to have access to the technology we do and have a forum such as this in which to voice our ideas and its with this information we can certainly narrow down the vast array of gear, techniques and systems used successfully by others to devise our own ;)
Thanks to everyone for sharing the knowledge and allowing me to atleast start to formulate a plan in relation to making my first Barra a successful one.
Regards
Colin
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Just a quick one the average came out at around 67.5lbs ::) so I guess somewhere in the 60-70lb range is going to be in the mix when I get my chance ;)
Cheers
Colin
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Remember watching the Dam Hot dvds & seeing Matt Fraser catching big barra on 6kg line. I'm wondering who is going to tell him he's got it all wrong.
I guess its just another example of one fisho having different knowlege and techniques being used.
Open water Vs thick snaggy timber makes a big difference in regard to the original question asked. Awoonga in some ways is quite similar to Tinaroo. Large areas of open water in the basin, you could pull up a horse with some fine cotton. ;)
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At the end of the day, if you want to take just one rod and reel, one spool of leader, and have one very good chance of landing what you hook whilst trying almost every luring style known to man on your travelling holiday; and minimising any losses, I'll still recommend to use 80lb leader, like black magic tough trace, regardless of terrain fished. Are barra shy of the leader- no, so why not maximise the chance and minimise the loss? The amount of stories you hear of guys in pubs, clubs, BBQ's and the like saying-----" you shoulda seen the size of the barra that got away,,,,,,,,,,rubbed through the leader" I may be a boring bugger, but if we control what we can control, we'll have minimal loss stories through leader chaffe whilst still maintaining a supple system that allows a smooth delivery of said lure. There's little point in saying---" Oh, I wish I had a......."
Metre plus fish are the common size. I'll never fish less than 80- it's too risky.
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Remember watching the Dam Hot dvds & seeing Matt Fraser catching big barra on 6kg line. I'm wondering who is going to tell him he's got it all wrong.
I guess its just another example of one fisho having different knowlege and techniques being used.
Open water Vs thick snaggy timber makes a big difference in regard to the original question asked. Awoonga in some ways is quite similar to Tinaroo. Large areas of open water in the basin, you could pull up a horse with some fine cotton. ;)
Robbie Waterhouse pulled plenty in with fine cotton....but look where it got him!!! :) :)
I use 80lb supple balck magic for softies, and 60lb for Hardbodies. I have had no troubles with either. You can pull up fish with anything...but the percentage of bustoffs (timber or open) thru fault, or no fault of the angler will increase the lighter you go with leader just because of the fish and its charicteristics.
Cheers Steve
Cheers Steve
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Robbie Waterhouse pulled plenty in with fine cotton....but look where it got him!!! :) :)
I use 80lb supple balck magic for softies, and 60lb for Hardbodies. I have had no troubles with either. You can pull up fish with anything...but the percentage of bustoffs (timber or open) thru fault, or no fault of the angler will increase the lighter you go with leader just because of the fish and its charicteristics.
Cheers Steve
There's always a comedian, funny Steve. Nice one! :)
Your last sentence sums it up nicely.
Cheers
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Remember watching the Dam Hot dvds & seeing Matt Fraser catching big barra on 6kg line. I'm wondering who is going to tell him he's got it all wrong.
I guess its just another example of one fisho having different knowlege and techniques being used.
Open water Vs thick snaggy timber makes a big difference in regard to the original question asked. Awoonga in some ways is quite similar to Tinaroo. Large areas of open water in the basin, you could pull up a horse with some fine cotton. ;)
Ask Matt what he uses these days ....... It wont be 6lb
Chris
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Robbie Waterhouse pulled plenty in with fine cotton....but look where it got him!!! :) :)
I use 80lb supple balck magic for softies, and 60lb for Hardbodies. I have had no troubles with either. You can pull up fish with anything...but the percentage of bustoffs (timber or open) thru fault, or no fault of the angler will increase the lighter you go with leader just because of the fish and its charicteristics.
Cheers Steve
Cheers Steve
All it takes is to witness just once what one of these big beasts are capable of doing to a heavy leader! -
Once you do .... if becomes difficult to really consider dropping down (in a big fish dam) .
I've had 2 big fish go through 80lb leader in under 10 seconds - not overly heavy drag
1 fish went through 80lb 10X in in one swipe of the gill rakers ........ big fish , all over red rover in a blink of an eye.
In the end - its up to the individual........ but why handicap your chances of landing what could be a fish of a lifetime
Chris
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All it takes is to witness just once what one of these big beasts are capable of doing to a heavy leader! -
Once you do .... if becomes difficult to really consider dropping down (in a big fish dam) .
I've had 2 big fish go through 80lb leader in under 10 seconds - not overly heavy drag
1 fish went through 80lb 10X in in one swipe of the gill rakers ........ big fish , all over red rover in a blink of an eye.
In the end - its up to the individual........ but why handicap your chances of landing what could be a fish of a lifetime
Chris
Agree Chris, it was watching my daughter's 1m plus 'potential fish of a lifetime' (she still talks about it) chomp through 60lb leader in a clear open run out into the basin after she had already fought it for sufficent time to think she had a look in to landing it that made me think - back to the future - why not wire like we used to?