Sweetwater Fishing Forums
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Paul Dolan on December 13, 2010, 04:02:42 PM
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Just asking for youropinions on rivers being netted for fish that are paid for and stocked by our sips money,
should any river that has a stocked impoundment on be netted ,I actually think no river should be netted but that's another can of worms and my opinion only!!! and if they are the commercial netter should pay a fee to help restock the dam for that species eg Barramundi.
Would like to hear your thoughts on this as I'm invited in January to attend a meeting to discuss the consultation process for the management of our fisheries,it is not going to change the fisheries directly but the way consultation between rec and commercial fisherman is handled,they are only small meetings with approx 10-15 people invited and are being held in Cairns, Mackay, Hervey Bay and Brisbane.
Thanks
Paul
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We cannot control flood events or even drought for that matter, so fish going AWOL is just part of the wheel that keeps turning around.
Im not pro-netting, (that's a topic in itself) but why not let the pros fill the quota with stocked fish that have gone AWOL. IMHO if a stocked fish goes over the wall the fishes purpose is mostly gone so why not let the pros take them if it helps a few wild fish survive to keep the gene pool as varied and healthy as possible.
A good topic PD. :thumbsup I'm looking forward to other replies. :thumb
Cheers,
fitz..
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paul
if i said what i am thinking when answering this question, it would offend many commercial fishermen.
i will pm you my response
cheers
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Thanks Kurt,
Fitz
The way I see it why should they get the fish for free when rec anglers bought a permit to stock them to be allowed to catch them,they should contribute back to the fish stocking program if they net below a stocked impoundment nothing is for free anymore.
They pay liciences just like us so part of that fee should go back just like us.
Thanks for your thoughts on it much appreciated
Paul
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as a kind response paul, i would say you are spot on. seeing my barra and mangrove jacks fly over the wall at the moment i would say im in full agreeance.
cheers
kh
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pu it this way paul, i have had 4 commercial netters ring up and thank me for my efforts with the fishery, and for the restocking of the wild fishery. i know where you are coming from with the lenthals overflow, as al told me on sunday moring with the netters down stream. you can read in my tone the response these guys got.
cheers
kurt
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We cannot control flood events or even drought for that matter, so fish going AWOL is just part of the wheel that keeps turning around.
Im not pro-netting, (that's a topic in itself) but why not let the pros fill the quota with stocked fish that have gone AWOL. IMHO if a stocked fish goes over the wall the fishes purpose is mostly gone so why not let the pros take them if it helps a few wild fish survive to keep the gene pool as varied and healthy as possible.
A good topic PD. :thumbsup I'm looking forward to other replies. :thumb
Cheers,
fitz..
G'day Paul
I tend to agree with what Fitz has to say, particularly with respect to taking some pressure off wild fish. Having said that you could always argue the point that those fish do or at least did have some sort of financial value. How often the issue comes up is relevant as well, once a year, once a decade or something in between? If the pros do end up 'buying' the released impoundment fish downstream a logical question could be why can't they 'buy' some of the fish within the impoundments. Most likely that would never happen but it could end up on some one's agenda.
For what it's worth and bear in mind my views are from well over the horizon so take them with a grain of salt, I'm not sure the issue is a big one. I'd be inclined to be focusing on the larger issues that have some chance of getting up. Perhaps the SIPS issue could contribute some leverage to a bigger picture scenario but I'd be only keeping it in that context.
Be careful of getting a small itch scratched at the expense of the heart transplant ;)
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I think many of the people involved in SIP Stocking Associations forget the actual reason the system was set up in the first place. We are not here to repopulate the world with native fish, in fact, what we are doing may well be proven at some stage to be detrimental to the survival of the remnant wild fish populations. Our stocking system is designed to maintain a put and take fishery to provide sprt and food to recreational anglers. Dams have always overflowed during flood events and will continue to do so. If you look at the premier Bass impoundments in Queensland, Somerset and Wivenhoe, I doubt you could say that they've been overly effected by water releases. Sure, they haven't overflowed much recently, but go back 15 years and it was a pretty common event.
I've been told by people I believe that stocked impoundment fish which end up in the wild as adults will quickly deteriorate in condition because they have to work much harder to feed. There is also the problem that Fitz mentioned, of corrupting a perfectly good wild gene pool with an unnaturally biased population of stocked fish.
Another report I've read suggests that while 85% of our population eat fish, only 15% of our population go fishing. The profession fishing industry is neccessary. I don't agree with netting in rivers, however after a flood event when the fish are stacked into the rivers from stocked impoundments, I believe it's a good time to cull them.
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Thanks guys,good to get some feedback,it's about all fisheries consultation and not just sweetwater but I thought I'd throw it out there and get some thoughts on the dam situation since they are flowing over.
Thought there would be more commenting on this topic :o
Would love to see the catch figures when the season opens again to netting in the rivers below the overflowing dams.
Lenthalls has flooded for the last 3 years losing both Bass and Barra! in 08 the netters were on the news bitching about the Bass in their nets but didn't winge about the free Barra, can't have your cake and eat it to!!!,they were saying the bass shouldn't be in the river I recon the netters shouldn't be in the river.
Kurt I feel your pain,to see the fish you've fed up and got them to size for release as we used to do before buying them at size for release from you then see them netted is not good.
A fishing licience could fix that but you need a govt with the nuts to do it and Anna doesn't have them.
Paul
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I think it is a great idea to get them to help put resources back into fisheries. Maybe something like paying a license or fee (per fish or per outing) for the season up until the spawning period is over after an overflow event so then at least what they take would be covered. I say this because after the spawn when fish head out to ocean areas, they(Commercial Fishing Operators "CFO") might say that there is a high probability the some of the fish captured are wild and not stocked and therefore free game. The hardest thing to is to police it. Some operators might try to find every trick in the book to get around having to pay for whatever reason.
I have seen plenty of threads recently talking about the white bucket brigades pillaging the fish that have come out of North Pine Dam. Fisheries have done a great job tracking some of them down but there are always gonna be those who just don't care.
Anyway my thoughts.
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Dale thanks for your thoughts on this much appreciated,I agree and disagree with some of what you've written,I didn't start this to get into a debate so I wont comment on them.
This first one could have been in the river for years and was trying to go back up who would know,I do believe that there are more theories on fish behaviour and movement than who killed Kennedy or Monroe and very few can be proven because they are fish a very unpredictable creature.
Here's the latest suntag news
Tag K39068
Species Australian Bass (Macquaria
novemaculateata)
Date 26/11/1995 4/12/2010
Length 355mm 560mm
Location Lake Somerset Brisbane River
Fisher Eddie Watson Henry Moggs
Days Out 5,487 days (just over 15 years)
Growth 205mm (14mm/year)
Movement 63km down lakes over dam walls
Released Yes
Another long term recapture of a Bass. This one
survived going over the Somerset and Wivenhoe
dam walls. It cannot be determined if this fish
moved during the current water releases or earlier
ones after it was tagged.
Tag details Recapture details
Tag P45429
Species Barramundi (Lates calcarifer)
Date 9/11/2004 5/12/2010
Length 1135mm 1220mm
Location Lake Tinaroo Lake Tinaroo
Fisher Northern Fisheries Robert Allan
Days Out 2217 days (6.1 years)
Growth 85mm (14mm/year)
Movement 4km in lake
Released Yes
This fish is indicative of the slower growth rate of
Barramundi at larger sizes.
Tahks Geoff
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Paul,
This question topic of mine has been aired for close to a decade and it's my only real concern with thousands of fish entering a river system below a dam wall. Gene pools.
I have fished our local salt water barra for over 20 years. I monitor it very closely every year. I keep a bloody good eye on the stocks, the sizes and it's health.
How the hell are we going to monitor a 'true wild fishery', and it's true state with an injection of fish that could top 100,000 mature adults in one hit.
It'd be possible to overpower local wild stocks in one foul swoop.
Give it 12 months, an angler catches a 100cm salty. Was it a lake fish, or was it a true wild fish?
I'm a tad upset that the originator of lake barra- Mr and Mrs Salty B Mundi will be slagged on by an army of test tube fish, taking over. The salty is unique, and in my ideal, deserves to be left to it's own devices to keep repopulating. We only have to look at these last two, and now three years. Juvenile barra are in mass abundance. I don't think we need a mega dose of lake siblings to breed with each other- whilst nature was doing a mighty fine job of it before hand.
It'd be a bit like the dingo, those 4 legged canine things are now often referred as wild dogs for good reason. Poor old Aussie dingo is being lost in the crowd, except for isolated regions.
That's one of the sad bits.
Johnny
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There's also the possibility of collapsing a food chain downstream with a stack of predators being dumped into a system that is probably in a balanced situation. If there was an excess of food present, more predators are likely to move in, not enough & predators move out in search of better pickings. A dumping of extra mouths could see alot of pressure put on what's available. Yep, some would move on & others may just get very lean/poor.
I agree PD, the pros should pay something. The QCFO must be happy as a fat kid in a cake shop at the prospect of barra lakes over flowing. But would a payment system be a double edges sword,,, could they then demand access to netting the lakes/dams they've helped to stock? We've fought long & hard to keep commercial operations out of our sweetwater in Qld, I'd hate to shoot myself in the foot....
We saw tonnes of bass getting netted in Moreton Bay recently after overflows from Lake Samsonvale. All ended up as cat food I'm guessing; a shame.
fitz..
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I think we were lucky enough to not have Awoonga flood in about 14 yrs. That's a fair crack of time for rec anglers to have a go in any fishery without wanting to have it all over again in a salt environment. Who really owns the fish over the wall now?
No one. They'd be free range now.
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I dont think they should be netting rivers period. I'd rather they netted stocked fish than wild fish if they are though.
But I also believe the rivers below the big dams should have a closed season automatically put in place once they go over, the turkey shoot and illegal fishing practices we see here after an overflow are mind boggling.
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Thanks for the comments guys,
re; the gene pool if one fish goes over and breeds with a wild fish the pool is mixed with a fish that was taken from the wild originaly,sure it lived part of it's life in a lake but don't some fish spend a part of their life landed locked for periods of time in droughts and survive.
How do the pro's know what is wild and what isn't and same goes with an angler? when the fish is in the salt for a period of time it will change conditioning and colour to suit that evvironment I would think.
The only way to stop it is stop stocking of all species altogether and that wont happen or should it to make sure all the wild fish stay wild?
Paul
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I dunno the answers Paul, but I'd not like to see the true wild fishery lost in an explosion of big, farmed dam fish where an angler catches a 120cm fish from the sea and calls it a true salty capture. True 120cm salty captures are milestones, some anglers taking decades to crack it. Some don't, ever.
I'd not like to see that challenge sidelined or belittled. Futuristic talk- "Oh yawn yawn, some angler just landed a 122cm fish from in the river." "Salty barra, they're easy beat!" "Lets go play x box."
That'd kill what wild stands for.
Also,
Kurt could explain the mass gene pool issue.
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JM and other, How do you think the 'impoundment cunning' barra will act and feed in the salt??? Do you think they will be as easily spooked, streetwise etc as they are in the lake??? I mean, do you think they will forget what they know from Awoonga, or do you think they will just eat everything and anything due to having to exercise for the first time in their lives!! Will they die from exaustion from this instant excise required to fight the big tides and current...that if they survive the waterslide in first place??
Serious questions hey!! Hopefully a lot of food chain (ie mullet, boneys and gar etc) go over to help bolster the food supply too.
One thing is for sure, it will be an interesting year ahead in the boyne area!
cheers Steve
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Johnny I totally understand where your coming from but floods and droughts come and go.
I've said for years that Awoonga and Monduran will flood one day it was just a matter of time and they have anybody that thought they wouldn't were kidding them selves and they will get low water levels again but when who knows,droughts don't last forever neither do floods,the only way to stop it is stop stocking and none of us want that.
I too would hate to see wild fisheries lost and I doubt it will ever happen but, how do you tell what is true wild and what is not as they will condition and colour change to suit the enviorenment they now live in it may take a while but they will adapt to the conditions presented to them or die and as you would know animals are pretty good at adapting fast.
A long time local commercial netter told me the Mary here in the bay was seeded many years ago with hatchery fish and now they are wild in the system as there is no Barra stocked lakes on the Mary but there are a few dams stocked with Bass,Saratoga,Mary River Cod,even some Murry cod along with Silver perch and Yellow Belly and even some Sooties on it and they are right through the system some Bass were even caught at the Urangan pier a year or 2 back after the Mary flooded who knows if they were wild or stocked.
When we humans interfere things are changed dramiticly.
Steve some interesting questions there,I think plenty of the food chain will go along with the barra and some will survive and some wont,be a bit like putting some humans in the wild some would survive and some wouldn't,when the going gets tough!! you know the rest.
Survival is in their genes as it is ours we have evolved and I think they will too.
The next few months will tell part of that story if the river is monotored and I believe it should be if we are to learn anything from it.
Paul
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I dont think they should be netting rivers period. I'd rather they netted stocked fish than wild fish if they are though.
But I also believe the rivers below the big dams should have a closed season automatically put in place once they go over, the turkey shoot and illegal fishing practices we see here after an overflow are mind boggling.
Fortunately - we do have one in place atm....
If the survival rate is high ...... as being touted - then the river system could be in real danger .......
The escapee barra will quickly adapt to feed on everything and anything that they can get there mouths around . The juveniles from last seasons recruitment could be decimated .
After that , then these escapees will need to locate food & move further down stream where they will have to deal with sharks & possibly the odd croc........... we end up with losses on both accounts.
Chris
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I can't condone the behaviour of the commercial guys that rang Kurt to stick it up him a bit, but I don't think their netting of fish that flow over a SIP during a flood should be limited beyond the current arrangements. It is not their fault the dam flooded and because it is a SIP, they shouldn't be expected to pay for any fish caught. The one change I would like to see, though is the classification of these fish caught by commercial guys. It is not right they can be classified as wild caught, when in reality it is likely they are not. This is ripping off the buyer.
Steve
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Awoonga isn't a SIP location. Lenthall's is, and Monduran is.
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There's also the possibility of collapsing a food chain downstream with a stack of predators being dumped into a system that is probably in a balanced situation.
I believe this statement by Fitz is the biggest problem we face with this whole situation. The Damming of rivers has only been done in this country since European settlment, whilst the river itself, and the foodchains within it, have existed for tens of thousands of years before our arrival.
I think the mass introduction of a stack of A Grade predators could possibly be detrimental to whole sections within the food chain!
Matt Hansen