Sweetwater Fishing Forums
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: aussiebasser on April 10, 2013, 09:44:12 AM
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I'm wondering what it is we get in return for our SEQWater Boating Permit for Somerset or Wivenhoe. What does the $15 for a weekly permit cover?
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Ask them should only take 3 years and 3 or 4 consultants to get a reply.
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It's a bit like talking to the top guy in your avatar.
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Is a boating permit required for a kayak on wivenhoe?
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The permit is required for all vessels carried on a trailer I'm told, so it must have something to do with Boat Ramp maintenance. If you carry your kayak on a roof rack you do not need a permit. SEQWater have leased Billy's Bay, and I'm an associate member of the Sailing Club so I guess I technically don't need one for there.
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Is a boating permit required for a kayak on wivenhoe?
If the kayak comes off a trailer, yes. The permit is required for "all trailerable vessels". So if you can fit your 6m boat on your roof rack, then that boat doesn't require a permit........... go figure. :o
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Only if you take your kayak on a trailer. I guess the permit is supposed to be used to fund the upkeep of boatramps.
Cheers Andrew
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SEQWater don't have upkeep of the ramp at Hays Landing because they've leased it out to the Sailing Club. Why should I pay for a permit if I launch there?
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Did anyone think to ask for the permit fees to be removed when they put in their submission re the recreational use of SEQ waters dams.
I did not think of it.
I wonder if the people who turn up with 6 yaks on their purpose built yak trailers buy 6 permits?
Cheers
Ray
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That was my point Ray. I took the Wave Runners to Somerset on Sunday. I have two on one trailer. I had to buy a weekly permit for both. I got one receipt/permit but had to pay $30.00. I only launched once, and I was a bloody sight quicker than any other fool on the ramp that day too! Where do they get off charging me twice for using the ramp once?
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I was also told a couple of years ago that if I purchased a boat permit, from the sailing club it can only be used for wivenhoe but if I go over to the info centre and get a boating permit it can be used on both dams, so I got mine at the info centre. If you pay the same money you should have the same deal.
Dino
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Dale at least you were honest unlike a lot of others. One of my pet hates ( I admit there are a lot) is at Hinze where only about 1 in three bother getting a fishing permit but they are happy to catch the fish that the permits pay for.
Cheers
Ray
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What if you drive an aqua duck ??
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Boating permits at Wivenhoe and Somerset do not pay for fish! Boating Permits at Hinze and North Pine go to the Stocking Groups. How can SEQWater explain that one! They said they would introduce fairer rules over a year ago. What happened to that SEQWater? They can't even keep up with their own BS.
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I was also told a couple of years ago that if I purchased a boat permit, from the sailing club it can only be used for wivenhoe but if I go over to the info centre and get a boating permit it can be used on both dams, so I got mine at the info centre. If you pay the same money you should have the same deal.
Dino
I can understand why in this case..... it would be a bit wrong IMHO if a sailing club on Wivenhoe were to issue a permit for another lake where they have no interest.....
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Fishing permit as used at Lake Advancetown &/or SIP at other lakes & the SEQWater boating permit are unrelated and should not be confused.
You can launch a boat at Advancetown and go for a cruise (electric only of course) and don't need a fishing permit (if not fishing) OR a boating permit.
Back to boating permit, if the fees collected from SEQWater boating permit were used for fish restocking, the lake lice and noise boats would be paying for fish they have no interest in. Imagine they'd be pretty pissed if they thought they had to pay a fee to put fish in which only attracts more fishing boats to get in their road while they turn petrol into waves and noise.
Going forward
I honestly don't know what the answer is; a common policy across all seqwater operated lakes is without a doubt going to disappoint one interest group or another. I think the problem is that you can't have a lake that is all things to all people. Designated areas within lakes or designated lakes could be the answer, but that gets back to what the current situation is...... :o
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Have they changed it? When I was in the Kilcoy club the rules about permits said you needed permits for trailer boats, so it was only boats on trailers that needed a permit. everything else was free regardless of method of transport.
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I've never heard of the sailing club selling boating permits.
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I have a Tinnie I use at Wivenhoe, the Stratos I use at Somerset and now the Wave Runners. There is no way, on top of what it costs me to be a part of the Volunteer Stocking Group, that I'm going to pay $400 a year in permit fees as well as the ridiculous price I have to pay for my water, and the $50 I have to pay for a freaking key to Billies Bay.
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Dale, you need to be more cunning.
I used to register my electric boat, that way no rego numbers on the permit, then use the permit on whichever vessel your using.
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I've never fished Wivenhoe, and now probably never will. I'll use the $15 in fuel to go further north. I think it's rubbish having to pay $15 just to launch a boat...anywhere.
JD
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I have a Tinnie I use at Wivenhoe, the Stratos I use at Somerset and now the Wave Runners. There is no way, on top of what it costs me to be a part of the Volunteer Stocking Group, that I'm going to pay $400 a year in permit fees as well as the ridiculous price I have to pay for my water, and the $50 I have to pay for a freaking key to Billies Bay.
Ok got the solution for you Dale.
I have a Thule Hulavator for sale. You wont believe it, but for 400 bucks.
So you buy that of me, Put it on the roof of your kayak and then carry the Stratos, Tinny and the licecraft on the roof of the ute.
One off payment and your in front next year, actually your double in front cause your paying no trailer rego.
How sweet is that.
My account number is
666-8008S
send the remittance and I will send the hullavator.
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Youre the ideas man Steven!
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I've never fished Wivenhoe, and now probably never will. I'll use the $15 in fuel to go further north. I think it's rubbish having to pay $15 just to launch a boat...anywhere.
JD
JD that is exactly why Lake Wivenhoe is quite possibly Qld's if not Australia's best bass fishery. So many drive right past it, but the next lake up the road (Somerset) costs the same but add a few hundred ski boats on weekends to break up the relaxation of fishing. Those who do make the effort on Wivenhoe and get to know it are the ones who are laughing.
I'll predict that in short order, the same boating permit will be on all SEQWater dams :-X ....or possibly none.....
:popcorn)
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Ok got the solution for you Dale.
I have a Thule Hulavator for sale. You wont believe it, but for 400 bucks.
So you buy that of me, Put it on the roof of your kayak and then carry the Stratos, Tinny and the licecraft on the roof of the ute.
One off payment and your in front next year, actually your double in front cause your paying no trailer rego.
How sweet is that.
My account number is
666-8008S
send the remittance and I will send the hullavator.
According to emails I get from Nigeria every other day, you're supposed to give us a copy of your full bank statement, then we can put LOTS of moolah in your bank. :NoSpam)
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The thing is whether SEQ water will charge a general fee for access to all dams or will it be a fee for each individual dam.
I regularly fish 3 dams and visit 2 others a couple of times a year.
If they were coin in the slot gates it would be tolerable but having to go to the trouble of purchasing a daily or weekly permit is a pain.
Cheers
Ray
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I didn't mind paying the permit for Wivanhoe / somerset, they were just so bl@@dy hard to get hold of if you wanted an early start. Even the year permit was a pain to organise the first time.
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From what I've heard.....
all campgrounds will be offered to local councils to operate or commercial business (at a profit of course) and everywhere else will be user pays.....
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JD that is exactly why Lake Wivenhoe is quite possibly Qld's if not Australia's best bass fishery. So many drive right past it, but the next lake up the road (Somerset) costs the same but add a few hundred ski boats on weekends to break up the relaxation of fishing. Those who do make the effort on Wivenhoe and get to know it are the ones who are laughing.
I'll predict that in short order, the same boating permit will be on all SEQWater dams :-X ....or possibly none.....
:popcorn)
A bit tounge in cheek there on my part Fitzy. But I honestly can't see the validity for that permit. It's not like we are wearing out the boat ramp. Queensland is always after the tourist dollar, and rightly so, but the greater the imposts on use of facilities provided by taxpayer money, the less people will be inclined to use it. Tourism Queensland looks not just at the interstate visitors but at locals as well. I know that the less boats on the Dam mean better (and quieter) fishing but $15 just to launch a boat is pretty rediculous.
Cheers,
JD
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Shaddup man, they'll be onto us soon, and they'll want another $15.00 to retrieve the bloody thing. We have a State Government who is currently trying to find ways of improving Recreational Angling, and a bloody minded SEQWater who are doing everything they can to destroy it.
For ABT to run a BASS Pro comp on Somerset, or any other SEQWater dam they are demanding a $500 permit fee. For an BASS Electric or BASS Kayak event they are trying to extort $250 from them. Now, the ABT have always given a donation to the Stocking Group when they run an event. With these new charges from SEQWater they may have to reduce that donation. Listen SEQWater, and I know you're reading this, this means we will have less money to stock fish, which means that the fishery will get worse which means the fishermen will stop coming, IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT? Is that what you are working towards, while the State Government are trying to promote Recreational Angling. Recreational Angling is this State's second biggest participation sport, behind Bush Walking. Seems wrong that SEQWater are doing their best to alienate the recreational anglers.
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I've never heard of the sailing club selling boating permits.
Now you have Dale
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Now you have Dale
Where do you go to purchase a permit from the Sailing Club?
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Part of email from sailing club.
we can sell a coating permit at the same time that we take a membership form, but we can only stamp and receipt it for Wivenhoe dam. They are better off calling at information centre at dam wall and paying same price for both dams..
Cheers
Ray
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Where do you go to purchase a permit from the Sailing Club?
Just give me a call mate and I will meet you out there. Will do a daily for 12.50 and yearly for $95
Permit may look like dunny paper but its got the same value and use.
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Permits used to be available from sailing club sec
Dino
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I just thought I would resurrect an old post, because we were promised changes from SEQWater and yet received none. We were told that there would be one permit for all lakes, and yet, still, there is really only a payment required to Seqwater to use lakes Wivenhoe and Somerset.
Now, this site; http://www.seqwater.com.au/recreation/boating#boat_permit (http://www.seqwater.com.au/recreation/boating#boat_permit) tells us this "Seqwater uses the money raised by the boating permit system to help fund lake patrols and assist with the cost of providing and maintaining recreation facilities"
So the money raised is used to fund lake patrols, and yet the lake patrols are only done to ensure users have a permit. OK, I guess that makes sense to Seqwater.
The money raised also assists with the cost of providing and maintaining recreation facilities, but only at Wivenhoe and Somerset? or are Wivenhoe and Somerset users subsidising Samsonvale, Kurwongbah, Hinze, Moogerah and Maroon users?
Is the money raised also used to provide BBQ facilities to the general public? or to complete the (obviously rare) cleaning of the toilets at The Spit?
Is it really only the boaters using Wivenhoe and Somerset who are paying to way for all of Seqwater's recreational facilities?
How can a business like Seqwater justify having only a minority of users pay for what the majority of users enjoy? I have to wonder what the ACCC would think of that.
Are Seqwater telling us that it doesn't cost anything for them to do lake patrols on lakes Moogerah, Maroon, Hinze, Samsonvale, Kurwongbah, Atkinson's Lagoon, Lake Dyer etc.? but it does cost them to patrol Somerset and Wivenhoe. Why is that?
Maybe if Seqwater's hierarchy took a little drive up the mountain, and visited Lake Cressbrook they would see what can be done for a user pays system. A $2 coin opens the boom gate for all visitors to the lake. It doesn't matter if you are going fishing form the shore, fishing from a kayak or canoe, fishing from a boat, swimming, paddling an SUP or having a family BBQ, you pay $2 per car towards the maintenance of the "recreational facilities".
To me, that seems pretty fair. Everyone pays to play.
Now, I suggested that this could even be taken one step further when I attended the public input day at Fernvale a few years ago and was laughed at by an Seqwater employee. Just about every vehicle on the road has a GoVia beeper on their windscreen. Instead of the cost of a boom gate at every public area, it would have to be more cost effective to just have a sensor that automatically debits your GoVia account. If it works for the roads, why shouldn't it work for Seqwater?
Discussion and ridicule welcome......
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Good points Dale
I went the other way in my submissions in that i asked for nil fees to be applied to all dams why should boaters on any dam be asked to subsidize other users who are not required to have a permit yet still utilize the facilities and still have to have their activities monitored by the rangers.
Be a bit hard to have go via readers at all access points as some of them do not have electricity.
You only need a boat permit if your vessel is required to be registered with the Queensland Department of Transport and Main Roads and/or would normally be transported on a trailer, due to the size of the craft. Kayaks, canoes and similar small craft do not normally require a permit.
Very vague wording
Are there 2 conditions that have to be complied with
One being that the boat is required to be registered plus carried on a trailer ( or normally carried on a trailer)
Or does only one of the conditions have to be complied with.
I seem to remember Dom Courtney stating at one of the meetings that if the boat was not registerable ( under 4 hp motor) no permit is required. But he is no longer with SEQ water so who knows.
Cheers
Ray
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It definitely says "and/or" Ray meaning either registerable or normally on a trailer or both.
You only need a boat permit if your vessel is required to be registered with the Queensland Department of Transport and Main Roads and/or would normally be transported on a trailer, due to the size of the craft. Kayaks, canoes and similar small craft do not normally require a permit.
The other caveat is the word "normally" where they refer to Kayaks, canoes and similar small craft. Does that mean it is up to the individual interpretation of a ranger?
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Something else to ponder. What can Seqwater do to you if one of their "lake patrols" discovers you do not have a "permit"? Are there any fines involved? or do they have to sue you? It would be a very interesting court case again, "um Your Honour, yes I was at their lake without a Permit, just like the 2000 people using the BBQs and toilets who aren't appearing before you here today because they are allowed to be there, but I'm not!" "No Your Honour, the kayakers and canoers didn't have permits either, but they also don't need them."
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From SEQ water
Hi Ray
We are a aware that vessels with engines under 4 hp do not require registration but if they are ordinarily transported on a trailer they do require a boating permit.
Lyn Brough Recreation Support Officer
Cheers
Ray
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She's the lady who couldn't explain to me why I needed two permits when launching the Waverunners from one trailer. All she can tell you is "their" "rules" not laws or consequences or reasons. It's a shame that the Seqwater people who monitor Sweetwater can't tell us in plain language why these stupid rules are in force, and why they wish to discriminate against the boaters that use Lake Wivenhoe and Lake Somerset by extorting an annual charge to float on the water. I guess it comes down to the numbers using the lakes and Somerset being pretty easy pickings for them. Immoral, and probably not legal, but we have to pay.
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In your next email Ray, ask Lyn the consequences for not having a permit.
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This was my email in May of 2013.
Good afternoon Dale
The permit itself is issued as a means to educate lake users about the restrictions and site specific requirements for the lake they intend to use. The statistical data collected aids the strategic recreation planning process.
Monies raised from the sale of permits goes back into the provision and maintenance of recreational and boating facilities.
We are currently entering into a process to review the recreational activity requirements (including boating permits) at all Seqwater sites and the outcomes of this review will dictate future requirements.
Regards
Lyn
so I replied with this;
Thank you for the reply Lyn,
I have asked many of my friends, both fishing and Jetskiing people, and of the 30 people asked, only two had been offered any education on restrictions, and one had asked for information and been given it. That is only 10% of the Permit buyers being given any education. This may be an area for improvement when you are reviewing your processes. In my own experience, I have never been offered education.
At Easter time this year, I went to the Spit. We have two Jetskis which are carried on a single trailer. When I stopped to buy my permit, I was surprised when the Ranger wrote out a single permit, added both registration numbers of the vessels to the single permit and charged me double the price for the permit. I didn’t receive any education on regulations, I only used the ramp once and we didn’t use any of the other facilities. On leaving, we stopped at the toilet block and my partner refused to use the Ladies so I doubt much of the funds raised from the Permits are used in the upkeep of the toilets.
I can’t see a reasonable need for me to pay double the amount of any other boater when I don’t get twice the benefit. Perhaps you could explain.
Regards,
Dale Sinclair
and received this;
Good afternoon Dale
I have captured your feedback regarding the education process for inclusion in the recreation review that is currently underway. If you would like to have further input into this review process you can do so at [url]http://www.seqwater.com.au/recreview[/url] ([url]http://www.seqwater.com.au/recreview[/url])
It is permissible for any authorised person issuing permits to record multiple vessels on the one permit form for the one owner. The fee is charged per vessel.
The number of visitors to Lake Somerset ( and in fact all of the Seqwater lakes) at Easter is usually exceptionally high and this makes it difficult for the limited staff resources to constantly maintain all of the public amenities. I have passed your concerns on to the coordinator for Somerset and asked that the concerns be considered in planning for next years high visitor numbers.
Regards
Lyn
None of which really made any sense, and obviously wasn't considered in the review, although the reasons for the permit have been changed on their website.
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Coobey and Cressbrook no longer require $2 to get in.
Boom gates are still there but have been open / up every time I have been there over the last 18 months or so.
On a side note pulled into Copeton Dam / Copeton Waters, and as a day visitor there is a fee of $10. It has a boom gate and a window for them to take your money.
Me I reversed out of it.
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I boat and kayak, a one off permit of $50 that covers whichever watercraft you are using, boat yak or canoe, for use in all SEQ water dams along with your fishing permit is the way to go, there should be no need to pay any more. I think most people would be happy with that. Also a $2 entry fee would have the picnic goers paying their way as well.
Dino