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Author Topic: Regarding the sharing of information  (Read 20765 times)

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Re: Regarding the sharing of information
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2011, 08:05:50 PM »
I started reading all the comments.... "Australia is a free country" Unless you live in it .. everything has a cost. Sure fishing licences for dams and stocked impoundments i will play along with happily but an all round fishing licence is like a chain and ball for an average jo blo that fishes once or twice a year with their kids.

On the camping hiluxes and idiots on bikes the scenic bin is overun with the F&*$(RS, I frequent areas that are of scenic values for my own reasons but to be nearly run off the road by some out of towner yuppy makes my blood absolutly boil! It plain and simply dangerous! Darlington park is one that would be turning over a small fortune with people that stay in caravans and 3 story tents with inground pools aswell as the kiosk with icecream, Every weekend its a mission just trying to drive through it . By now people would have lost interest in this reply post .. Ok im over my rant have at it pick it to peices.

Have a safe new year everyone  :youbeauty

Steve

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Re: Regarding the sharing of information
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2011, 08:12:04 PM »
You say that the condamine was your river.  Sadly that is the attitude of many land holders, note that they are not river holders, just land holder who think they own the river.  That is what has been stopped along the ovens and Murray rivers.  Nobody owns the river

This statement is quite misleading and wrong, deeds are what you need to read.

I believe your intentions are good, however the facts do not hold up your argument.

Trespass is trespass, permission should be sought, before going onto any property and the landholders right of refusal should be respected.

Have a great year and may you enjoy your fishing.

Regards

Trev

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Re: Regarding the sharing of information
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2011, 09:19:53 PM »
We arerobably getting away from the original thread a bit but what Mylestom has said has merit. If I owned property on a nice river frontage with a few kilometres of water at my back door I would be pretty careful who I let in. Sure you can drive a boat or whatever down the river but once you set foot on the land is where the problems start. I have a mate who owns land along the upper Clarence. His title says that he actually owns right to the middle of the river. He found this out after a particular guide was caught camping on his property without permission and he looked further into what his rights were. The guide was making money out of taking people fishing (not a problem) but not bothering to find out whose land he was camping on. There needs to be some sanity injected. At Carnham Crossing on the Clarence there is free camping and you should see the mess we've cleaned up there over the years. That includes the dickheads who think that every river bank needs to be driven up in their "Hiluxes". IT makes anything the farmers do pale by comparison.
JD

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Re: Regarding the sharing of information
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2011, 09:44:48 PM »
I think alot of the problem is that (in my part of the world) all bed and banks of the rivers are owned by the state govt & the Qld Land Act has a loop hole that allow adjascent land owners to pretty much do as they please on the beds and banks with no accountability, nor any monetary recompense required. DERM basically wipe thier hands of their land & aren't interested in managing the resource. This includes little to no action in control or eradicate of pest plants, weeds and animals on their lands.

I've seen hundreds upon hundreds of examples of live stock being allowed to enter waterways, collapse of banks, riparian vegetation removal etc which all impacts on the waterway & the life it supports. There is often little or no regard for the welfare of the waterway until there's something that challenges the status quo ie drought flood or someone else grabs the water before they can (read over allocation of the water resource). Creeks & rivers are almost endemically regarded as a resource to be used/exploited. These deliver the water which is a consumable item for many land owners.

Now not all land owners abuse or take for granted the adjoining waterways, some do the right thing, fence their livestock from the beds & banks, some proactively are replanting native vegetation, control weeds etc, however in my experinces, these are the minority. Same as the trouble makers at reserves etc are a minority.

If we follow the logic of closing off access points because of a minority of trouble makers (often not anglers), should we also shut down all roads becuase one or two people speed in their cars/trucks/bikes? Of course not, because its just plain absurd.

I'm all for keeping access points open, once closed they are gone forever. I'll not sit idly let a lack of enforcement for littering be used as a reason to deny access for the majority who do the right thing. Again, same as on the roads, we have enforcement there to as a way to disuade the wrong doers, but where is the accountability & enforcement for the abuse of our native waterways? EPA is the watchdog but they don't seem ot want to touch non-tidal waters. Why? Because the EPA has been absorbed by DERM & DERMs operational guidelines are determined by various Govt Acts, one of these is the Land Act which allows the abuse with no accountability as mentioned above, so they do nothing......Can't go upsetting the bosses....... so EPA tend to stick to the rust water.

Small | Large


I've got alot of other photos & videos showing neglect & abuse of our waterways by land owners.

For reference I've attached the Condamine Catchment info sheet from Qld Govt. It is interesting to read the Environmental Issues section, but is noteworthy that there is & has been positive changes to attitudes and practices.  :thumbsup This should be applauded & encouraged  :Clap)


BTW- you don't need a hilux to be an idiot.  :o

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Re: Regarding the sharing of information
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2012, 06:37:38 AM »
How can you compare QLD to the likes of NSW and VIC when these states have the full blown salt/freshwater fishing license..there is huge money generated to be spent on restocking and facilities in these states. Until QLD comes on board with a similar licences don't winge about the government not doing enough. I reckon the sooner the better...

Cheers


I put this link in another forum also as a similar discussion is being held on there: http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/fees

Have a read and see how much of those fees are going to the NSW DPI..their license fees are funding a Dept..how ludicrous.

What Qld needs is for the Govt to do what they are supposed to do..provide for the residents of the State..that includes access and facilities and enforcement of regulations...we are continually being hit with increases in every sphere from Governments..so where does all this money go? Perhaps that is the first step..ascertaining where our tax money is currently being wasted..stop that bleeding and spend it for the betterment of all..and that includes vast improvements to all forms of recreational facilities.

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Re: Regarding the sharing of information
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2012, 06:53:17 AM »
Any way

I am on the lookout for some Pink Ribbon Tape.

It will stay with me in the car.

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Re: Regarding the sharing of information
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2012, 08:41:00 AM »
Any way

I am on the lookout for some Pink Ribbon Tape.

It will stay with me in the car.

Got a roll at my place if you want to call in. I got it from hardware store.

cheers,

fitz..

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Re: Regarding the sharing of information
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2012, 12:41:48 PM »
IMO the law regarding  river and creek frontage of land should state that all creeks must be fenced off from livestock except for designated crossing points and this should be done at least 10mt from the banks of the creek. Any vegetation damage that has occured within that area shoould be fixed ie the banks 10m either side if any water course should be revegetated. That 10m should be state land and anyone should be allowed access. No one has a right to own a natural watercourse annd hang anyone that thinks they do. I am sick and tired of seeing farmers clear right down to the waters edge. It the greatest environmental vandalism I have ever seen
Ps. This should not only apply to farmers. It should be accross the board. Any urban development should follow the same rules.

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Re: Regarding the sharing of information
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2012, 06:30:36 PM »
Brett,

Very easy to put all farmers/landholders down on a format like this. Very irresponsible and all it will achieve is to get the back of all landholders.

A lot of the reasons are put forward are great for the fishing faternity, however how realistic are they for the average landholder.

To fence all river system at the the 10metre mark, who would pay, who would pay for replacment due to flood damage etc.

Let alone the repayment to landholder for the the loss of their property, 10m by a two or twenty or even hundred klms of land, now cant be utilised. Now we have to have water trough for all stock and pumping and wastage from the river.

It all sounds good, put up lots of photos and videos of cattle drinking at the river. Again it is a us and them mentality.

Buy some land yourself, do what you want, show us how to do it with your own money, and when you show how it can be done and still turnover a reasonable income, then some might listen to you.

As for me now retired, but we fenced off riverfrontage over 25years ago, planted wildlife corridors and all that you are talking about, including not allowing irresponsible fisherfold from pillage the cod, burning fence posts , leaving gates open , aborting heifers that the bull got in through the open gate. Cost of one irresponisble lot of fishermen that we agreed to let in, lets see, replace fence posts approx $1,000, abort 30 heifers (Vet fees, loss of production for twelve months for stud breeding) $60,000. That does not include own labour, and that is a conservative estimate, when our bull calves even from heifers fetch $5,000 to $10,000.

But enough of what my personal experience and loss, also the 16 cod taken the smallest was approx 15lb, that was their boast at the local pub.

Would you put up with this in any business you owned.


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Re: Regarding the sharing of information
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2012, 07:16:01 PM »
Mylestom. I actually agree with much of what you are saying. The damage caused by irresponsible yahoos taking everything they catch and leaving rubbish and damage is just as disgraeful as the damage caused by cropping and livestock. And I know there are farmers that put in effort to look after the land(i have seen the results and talked to several of them) but from what I have seen in my years fishing is that those farmers are unfortunately in the minority. Given that the land was purchased with one set of rules in the first place then to change those rules and expect the farmers to cough up the dough would be the wrong thing to do so I belive the state should forcibly purchase the land back(the same way they would when building a road or dam).Most farmers on small properties allready run fences along rivers(only too close and kept in a poor state of repair) so the fencing issue is not a problem. Although on large stations with a low density of stock I believe this requirement could be waived. Trespass issues would not be a problem as all acess would be via public land not over private property and as for damage, well no rules are going too prevent tossers doing the wrong thing so in this case rulles should be enforced far harder. You are right about an us vs them mentality and that has been caused by idiots on both sides. This would be one way to prevent those idiots clashing. Bad farmers woould noot be the problem of the rivers and bad fishos/others would not be the problem of the farmers.

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Re: Regarding the sharing of information
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2012, 07:23:49 PM »
Let alone the repayment to landholder for the the loss of their property, 10m by a two or twenty or even hundred klms of land, now cant be utilised. Now we have to have water trough for all stock and pumping and wastage from the river.
I don't know about a bugger zone beingn workable, but at a minimal the beds & banks should be, on the whole have restricted livestock access with designated watering points IMHO.
2000km of Victorian rivers have now been fenced off from livestock. Surely they saw the benefits & could affort it....

Quote
It all sounds good, put up lots of photos and videos of cattle drinking at the river. Again it is a us and them mentality.

Buy some land yourself, do what you want, show us how to do it with your own money, and when you show how it can be done and still turnover a reasonable income, then some might listen to you.
Not us & them, I grew up on the land as a kid & even then saw the damage our practices were doing, & that our relatives and neighbours.
So the oppinion of rec anglers & tax payers dont matter because they may or may not be a land owner? Wow, didn't know there was still a class system in Australia. I'd like to run that past the constitution, but after reading the Land Act, you appear to be correct.

Quote
As for me now retired, but we fenced off riverfrontage over 25years ago, planted wildlife corridors and all that you are talking about, including not allowing irresponsible fisherfold from pillage the cod, burning fence posts , leaving gates open , aborting heifers that the bull got in through the open gate. Cost of one irresponisble lot of fishermen that we agreed to let in, lets see, replace fence posts approx $1,000, abort 30 heifers (Vet fees, loss of production for twelve months for stud breeding) $60,000. That does not include own labour, and that is a conservative estimate, when our bull calves even from heifers fetch $5,000 to $10,000.
You & yours are to be commended.  :Clap) There are grants available to support & encourage the efforts of people such as yourself, and there should be more of it. Much more. One a recent canoing trip down a river I spotted a couple of fellas hacking away in the scrub ob the river bank. I went over to chat to them; they were chipping out pest weeds.  :thumb I gave them a big thankyou & asked if I could help out. They only wanted me to help spot more from the water for them.

Quote
But enough of what my personal experience and loss, also the 16 cod taken the smallest was approx 15lb, that was their boast at the local pub.

Education, enforcement,  peer pressure & time will see these type die out.  C:-) The days of a good days fishing being scored on how full the ice box is are gone. Yet I recently went to a relatives property in western Qld & they said lets go fishing,,,the fishing consisted of driving to the river & pulling up the permanently set fish trap..... Bad fishing attitudes aren't just the perogative of rec anglers, land owners have them as well.

Quote
Would you put up with this in any business you owned.
That's what I'm getting at with the issue with the land act & over allocation of water extraction. The beds & banks of our crown waterways are taken for granted & included in the business model. This is how the Murray Darling system go into so much trouble; little thoughts of the bigger sheme & those downstream. The rivers are for all Australians, our following generations & the animals that rely on the waterways for their very existence.

******************************

A property I visited up north on the Broadsound re-invested in their business model. Re-fenced the whole property into a cell farm setup , mapped out watering troughs at key locations saving water & cost on maintenance, eliminated all stock from entering rivers (also helped to eliminate stock getting unknown nasties from upstream), eliminated the use of all organochlorides etc as the cell farming setup broke parasite breeding cycles, put in a pest animal/weed management system & guess what.... they were able to then change from bos indicus breeds to european breeds, selectively breed for growth & fertility. Once that was done they now carry more stock, better quality stock AND get a premium price for their beef at the markets thus earning more than they ever did before without the added cost of pesticides etc. Reinvestment paid for itself many times over. The river & land are better off at the same time.


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Re: Regarding the sharing of information
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2012, 07:43:35 PM »
Just putting the other viewpoint across, my son is actually a Senior Environmental Scientiest with a couple decades of experience, so have a understanding from the viewpoint of the landholder, environmentalist and fisherman.

It is always good when the discussion cover all aspect of the subject, but at no time should all landholders/farmers be bundled into general comment. There a good and bad in all walks of life.

Being a Ex-serviceman and veteran, Advocate and  many other hats, have seen just a little over the years, and realise that you have to look at anything from all perspectives.

Thats enough from me, over to you younger folks to come up with all the answers, the old brain need to have a rest a good fish this year.

Enjoy 2012.


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Re: Regarding the sharing of information
« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2012, 08:32:28 PM »
The talk about cattle really got my attention Fitzy and you are dead right .. Smart farming is productive farming and can be productive for both sides of the fence Farmer and Eco system.

Im guilty of having to tell guests to mind the chip ho in the passenger seat of my car where it lives, If ever i have spare time i just wander around chipping weeds.. force of habbit.

Steve

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Re: Regarding the sharing of information
« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2012, 09:06:16 PM »
Great to read thru this stuff, both sides. Real journalism is supposed to do that but rarely doesnt.
Wish we had 10000 more like Mylestom.  :thumbsup like others said, peer pressure with a carrot/stick approach will bring everyone into line eventually. The best outcome is shared use water courses for best productivity and environment & respect of all stakeholders. Sustainability is the key. Ask yourself "can this be the same for my grandkids"?

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Re: Regarding the sharing of information
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2012, 11:10:23 AM »
Before I retired I was a freelance photo journalist and did a lot of my work for the RM Williams magazine "Outback". I therefore spent a lot of time on very large cattle stations all over the country and found that the overwhelming attitude of most these land managers was to make sure the they left the land in better condition than they found it. Sure there have been far too many examples of overgrazing and over clearing,  however this is only an example of a dying breed. Todays pastoralist considers him/herself to be a custodian of the land. The biggest problems of land use come for the hobby farmers and Pitt St farmers who really don't have a proper grasp on the situation. In the case of the really big stations most of the water points are bores anyway, there's really very little stream watering done.
JD

 

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