Sweetwater Fishing Forums

Special Interest => Fish Restocking / Acclimatisation and Environment => Topic started by: aussiebasser on February 06, 2011, 02:59:27 PM

Title: 'toga party
Post by: aussiebasser on February 06, 2011, 02:59:27 PM
119 very healthy Saratoga now call Lake Wivenhoe home.  A couple of weeks ago, this spot was under 7 metres of water.
Title: Re: 'toga party
Post by: Binder on February 06, 2011, 03:07:40 PM
Nice to see, many toga gone in previously?
Title: Re: 'toga party
Post by: aussiebasser on February 06, 2011, 07:25:20 PM
Enough have been stocked now that they should become a self sustaining population in both Wivenhoe and Somerset.  Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: 'toga party
Post by: nagg on February 06, 2011, 07:32:44 PM
Hi Dale

Any idea of how long they take to get to breeding size ?

Chris
Title: Re: 'toga party
Post by: aussiebasser on February 06, 2011, 07:35:56 PM
Fitz would, I don't.  Some that we released a few years ago were already breeding size.  There are metre fish in Wivenhoe.  The problem with 'toga is the cost.  Having to compete with aquarium trade means we have been known to pay over $100 per fish so we can release them.  These fish didn't cost that, and ranged from about 4" long to about 10" long.
Title: Re: 'toga party
Post by: bushwacker on February 06, 2011, 08:21:55 PM
Enough have been stocked now that they should become a self sustaining population in both Wivenhoe and Somerset.  Fingers crossed.


Can you give me a rough estimate at how many that is dale ?

Steve
Title: Re: 'toga party
Post by: Sweetwater on February 06, 2011, 09:12:56 PM
Enough have been stocked now that they should become a self sustaining population in both Wivenhoe and Somerset.  Fingers crossed.

I agree in regard to Somerset. If they're not established there they never should be.

Wivenhoe has only had 260 released in past couple of seasons. There were 36 put in like 20 years ago & these were established but there are none up the top of Wivenhoe. IMHO still more up the top & in feeder tributaries for them to properly establish.


Fitz..
Title: Re: 'toga party
Post by: BG on February 07, 2011, 06:48:44 PM
I was smashed off on a fly rod well up the Stanley some time ago. And I am putting it down to a Saratoga.  Or an express train.

If that was the case then they do like the feeder creeks. Wish I had the time to check it further.

Gordon
Title: Re: 'toga party
Post by: Sweetwater on February 07, 2011, 10:22:04 PM
Gordon, I've seen saratoga further upstream from your place. They're there....  :thumbsup

Fitz..
Title: Re: 'toga party
Post by: BG on February 08, 2011, 06:25:14 AM
Challenge accepted.

Gordon
Title: Re: 'toga party
Post by: Binder on February 08, 2011, 06:50:21 AM
Plenty of Toga in the upper reaches of Somerset (well before the flood there was!), seen reasonably regular catches in the last couple of years before I resigned from the kilcoy club (IE - I no longer have access).

age to Breeding? about 4-5 years is what I have heard.
Title: Re: 'toga party
Post by: Pilly on February 08, 2011, 11:03:53 PM
I love fishing for Toga and those fingerlings look great.
Just a quick question, why do they allow Toga to be stocked outside of there natural range?

Cheers
Pilly
Title: Re: 'toga party
Post by: Sweetwater on February 09, 2011, 12:16:13 AM
Plenty of Toga in the upper reaches of Somerset (well before the flood there was!), seen reasonably regular catches in the last couple of years before I resigned from the kilcoy club (IE - I no longer have access).

age to Breeding? about 4-5 years is what I have heard.

Maybe because we dropped a couple hundred right at the mouth of the bay where the Kilcoy FC access the lake.  :youbeauty

Yep, 4-5 years should pull 'em up.

We also put adults up there, biggest was 92cm at time if release.  :OMG

If they aren't breeding up the top of Somerset by now, they never will. We banged alot of them in there in a 5 year program, now its sit back n see time & focus on getting Wivenhoe's saratoga numbers up; pending funding.

fitz..
Title: Re: 'toga party
Post by: BG on February 09, 2011, 06:53:45 AM
I could not give you the numbers but every now and then one is caught and released by the Kilcoy club.  At a guess probably 1 a month comes in.

Gordon
Title: Re: 'toga party
Post by: Sweetwater on February 10, 2011, 03:03:38 PM
Great info Gordon, thankyou.  :thumbsup

It would be great to be given that sort of feedback from the Kilcoy Club (and other clubs as well).

Sadly often very little is forthcoming ........   :'(
Bet we'd hear more if no fish were getting caught, alot more. I'm happy to run with no news is good news....


fitz..

Title: Re: 'toga party
Post by: Pilly on February 10, 2011, 07:50:04 PM
I love fishing for Toga and those fingerlings look great.
Just a quick question, why do they allow Toga to be stocked outside of there natural range?

Cheers
Pilly

Does anyone know the answer to my question? I can not understand the logic on this when there are such strict rules on other species of fish only being stocked within their natural range. All the info I have found so far says Toga are native to the Fitzroy Basin, but I suppose it's no different to Murray Cod being stocked in my local Lake Maraboon many years ago. A mate of mine caught a 109cm Cod out there last year!

Pilly
Title: Re: 'toga party
Post by: elops on February 12, 2011, 11:36:10 AM
Not really sure, glad it is though.
Other fish are allowed to be stocked outside their natural range eg. Silver Perch and Golden Perch in SEQ impoundments.
Interesting that Toga cant be stocked into the Mary catchment but Sivers and Goldens can.
For the full list of species that can be stocked where see the Fisheries (Freshwater) Management Plan 1999.
Cant find all the updates and relevant parts on DPI website, have it on a pdf file if you are interested ?
Not sure if pdf file can be uploaded here ?

cheers
Steve
Title: Re: 'toga party
Post by: Jim_Tait on February 17, 2011, 12:48:46 PM
Pilly, from what I recall of my days on the Freshwater MAC Saratoga are alklowed to be stocked outside of their natural range for a couople of reasons - one being that there is a history of doing it and they have already been established in basins beyond their range so for those basins (usually fairly modified ones) at least 'the damage has been done'  (sic) - the other reason is that Saratoga being mouth brooders that only do a couple hundred eggs max at a time have fairly low fercundity (reproductive capacity) - so even where they do establish they don't tend to take over a system and with their fairly specialised niche (visual surface feeders) don't elbow out the locals too much in terms of direct predation or competition. Places where Saratoga stocking would not be  allowed include basins that have never been stocked with them in the past or basins where threatened fish species may  be affected by them - Steve its interesting that Saratoga arn't allowed to be stocked in the Mary basin given that they're already established there - I assume threatened fish species (least three in the Mary) have something to do with it - but to allow Silvers and Goldens seems inconsistent as they would be likely to pose more of a direct threat to the threatened fish species present - perhaps its the history of stocking these species, demonstrated of lack of breeding by them (is that the case?) and probably rec fisher pressure that sees them continued? - Regards Jim
Title: Re: 'toga party
Post by: drjfly on February 17, 2011, 03:17:39 PM
Jim is essentially correct.


No species is allowed to be stocked outside of its range except where a continuing permit exists. So if a species was stocked before the translocation policy was introduced and a continuing permit and management plan exists then they can continue to be stocked. If the permit was not renewed then no further stocking will be allowed. It is a lot more technical than that but you get the gist.


Regards
Darren
Title: Re: 'toga party
Post by: Sweetwater on February 17, 2011, 11:27:24 PM
There was a move, at one point, by a senior person in the then Fisheries Management body QFMA to have the stocking of saratoga outside of the Fitzroy River catchment (Qld) stopped.

An outcry by fishing clubs saw a backdown on that stance.

Agree with Jim & Dryfly on their comments.

I believe there will be a time when the stocking of almost all fish outside of thier natural range will not be permitted. Possibly as species such as Jungle Perch become available for restocking, the Murray Darling species (Golden & Silver Perch) may be dropped from restocking permits.

In the meantime, if Saratoga can be established BEFORE there is a cesation of stocking them, then the need for stocking is moot.

Cheers,

fitz..
Title: Re: 'toga party
Post by: Pilly on February 18, 2011, 10:16:37 PM
Thanks fellas,

Very informative replies to my question and you are right Fitzy, better get stuck into stocking Toga because you never do know when we may be stopped. They are an awesome fish.

Regards
Adrian