Sweetwater Fishing Forums
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bracey on June 10, 2011, 03:37:59 PM
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This thread is to go in conjuction with Fitzy's thread on Wild Bass closure zones. As you are already aware, there is going to be some major reviews on the regulations of our freshwater fisheries in the next couple of months or so. DEEDI are holding workshops right through our Southern and Western regions to not only inform stocking groups of there obligations but for stocking groups to inform DEEDI what may or may not need or want to be changed, to better our fisheries.
One new regulation that DEEDI have been trying to intoduce for a while now and I believe from what was said on the day at the Fernvale Workshop is that DEEDI recommend and would like to implement an increase on the amount of the take limit of stocked impoundment Bass. After closely liasing with DEEDI officials in the past year or so in regards to what EMFMI are trying to acheive as a fishery, I tend to agree some what, however not to the extent that was mentioned on the day so much.
There are a lot of pro's and con's for this debate and it would be great to hear your thoughts and ideas so that we as stockest and anglers can put forward a reasonable plan to what we would like to implement as a new regulation or not for the take limit of stocked impoundment Bass.
I hope this thread makes for good discussion which will result in a good outcome for all.
Cheers Dave
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I'd be happy to see it go up a bit.
One of the arguments for stocking yella's is to give those blokes who like to get a feed something to target (with a 10 limit).
Allow 5 bass out of stocked impoundments and maybe we can stop stocking yella's for the blokes who like a feed (bass taste much better anyway) and stock all bass ;D
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The increase in the bass bag limits has been thrown around before & defeated each time. The number that has been thrown about in the past has been 5 bass in posession.
Comparing bass to golden perch is not apples and apples when discussing "filling the sugar bag". To get a 50cm golden perch in a stocked impoundment can be achieved in 2 or 3 years in good conditions... the same conditions can see it take 10 or more years to see a bass achieve the same size.
To go from a take of 2 to 5 bass per person is a massive step. For a 150% increase in bass being taken from impoundments, it would need a 150% increase in funding for at least a couple years leading upto a increase in take of that order.
Failure to do this may see some bass fisheries collapse, all for the sake of a cheeper grocery bill. This not only affects those who choose to take a feed, but those who choose to release the fish they catch.
I don't know if the proponents of the 5 bass bag have thought it through, or have much idea on the investment to get a bass lake running, but the idea is a loaded gun....best treated with respect. Once the trigger is pulled there's no stopping the impact.
I'm not against it, just aware that every action has an equal & opposite reaction. I'd hate to see world class bass fisheries like Somerset or Boondooma collapse as a result, nobody will win.
Perhaps a total bag from stocked impoundments is an option worth considering. Total bag of 25 fish per person & illegal to upgrade dead fish. That is, you can't pull a 40cm bass out of the icebox & toss it over the size when you catch a better one. (that's one topic that nobody want's to talk about much...)
Cheers,
Fitzy..
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Great post Fitzy and backed up with some realistic figures.
Where this could be problematic is every fishery is different and has it's own under lying issues. I was hoping this topic could have been discussed in greater detail on the day of the workshop, however we ran out of time.
As mentioned at Fernvale, most members of EMFMI exept for one member are very green and inexperienced when it comes to aquaculture and rely on the recommendations of others who are are highly involved in the industry. What is the reasoning behind DEEDI recommending to push the take limit up? My thoughts and reasonings are having more sustainable fisheries, increasing the number of stocked fish to greater lengths in a shorter period of time. Some fisheries could sustain more stocked fish where others may not.
This paragragh from your above post wouldn't work, would it, unless we got the size limit of Bass increased???
Perhaps a total bag from stocked impoundments is an option worth considering. Total bag of 25 fish per person & illegal to upgrade dead fish. That is, you can't pull a 40cm bass out of the icebox & toss it over the size when you catch a better one. (that's one topic that nobody want's to talk about much...)
Cheers,
Fitzy..
Cheers Dave
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G'Day Dave,
A great topic for discussion :thumbsup
You're right, a mixed total bag would need some thought put into it for sure.
Be interesting to read the comments / replies to this topic. :thumbsup
fitz
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I'd be happy to see it go up a bit.
One of the arguments for stocking yella's is to give those blokes who like to get a feed something to target (with a 10 limit).
Allow 5 bass out of stocked impoundments and maybe we can stop stocking yella's for the blokes who like a feed (bass taste much better anyway) and stock all bass ;D
If the bag limit doesn't get lifted on Bass, very soon all stocked dams will be nothing but Bass - as dams that stock Yellows or Silvers start getting flogged from pillar to post by the fisho's looking for a feed - 10 & 5 bag limits, soon stocking groups will say why are we getting over fished and just stock Bass. And the smaller the dam the worst it will be.
And then what will we have - a whole bunch of dams with nothing but Bass in them and the guy's looking for a feed will turn a blind eye to the bag limit anyway..
It is said the re stocking of dams is a put & take fishery but some think it is put and no take...
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I would like to see it remain at 2. When a school is found and somebody is seen catching a few bass other boats arrive and say there is 3 boats and they have 3 people in each and they keep thier limit, thats 18 bass out of the school. If you raise the limit to 5 each then thats 45 fish and poooof thats the end of that school . I dont mind a bass to eat sometime although I think I have only taken about 4 over the past couple of years. Just another angle to look at.
Dino
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How about an increased bag limit but only one fish allowed over 40cm?
Cheers
Ray
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How about an increased bag limit but only one fish allowed over 40cm?
Cheers
Ray
A fair idea.
To take it one step further, or rather to the side. What about along the lines of the NSW bag & size limit for Australian Bass?
Bag limit if two bass in possession
Minimum size 30cm, only one permitted over 35cm
Uniformity, if practica,l would help confusion & enforcement around state borders.
fitz..
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Have to wonder how the ABT comps get around that one. I thought it was for rivers only and didn't cover impoundments.
If the bag limit doesn't get lifted on Bass, very soon all stocked dams will be nothing but Bass - as dams that stock Yellows or Silvers start getting flogged from pillar to post by the fisho's looking for a feed
Not sure how this is any different to what's been happening for the last 20 years, and how lifting the limit on Bass will change it?
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Comparing bass to golden perch is not apples and apples when discussing "filling the sugar bag". To get a 50cm golden perch in a stocked impoundment can be achieved in 2 or 3 years in good conditions... the same conditions can see it take 10 or more years to see a bass achieve the same to get a bass lake running.
That an amazing fact!
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Possession limit of 2 has worked fine so far, IMO should not be changed.
cheers,
Steve.
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Perhaps a total bag from stocked impoundments is an option worth considering. Total bag of 25 fish per person & illegal to upgrade dead fish. That is, you can't pull a 40cm bass out of the icebox & toss it over the size when you catch a better one. (that's one topic that nobody want's to talk about much...)
Cheers,
Fitzy..
My pet hate, but what can you do? rules is rules. I never criticise anyone for following the rules, and support their right to do so, even if if it causes considerable wear on my back teeth!
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Have to wonder how the ABT comps get around that one.
Been a question on my lips to. I have actually asked the question at a NSW comp, "so its one as close to 40 as possible and 1 over?" Got looked at like I was stupid, its catch and release was the answer, doesn't matter - dunno what NSW fisheries would say about you tooling around with 2 over 40 in your live well.
I can certainly understand the hesitancy of others to up the bag limit, but being as we are talking about put and take fisheries, its probably the most low risk place to do it.
Particularly when you look at the numbers of large fish caught below dams over the last 6 months. A lot of those "trophy fisheries" might just be a memory for another 10 - 20 years anyway.
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"Particularly when you look at the numbers of large fish caught below dams over the last 6 months. A lot of those "trophy fisheries" might just be a memory for another 10 - 20 years anyway. "
That's another interesting point Binder. Having a well stocked dam (i.e. two fish limit) is good insurance for over-the-wall events.
But I'm also a Luddite and C&R only.
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Dams overflowing are nothing new. They have been overflowing for years, they just took a little break. It didn't damage the "trophy" fishery of Lake Wivenhoe in the past when the River was given a liberal stocking of good fish.
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I have fished in a few rivers lately that have been scoured out by the floods and seen a decline in fish where I expected fish. Some donuts too.
Somerset has gone quiet except for catties amd talapia.
The Kayak comp in Wivenhoe may tell a story if it is held in the dam.
Intresting times.
Gordon
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The Kayak comp in Wivenhoe may tell a story if it is held in the dam.
Intresting times.
Gordon
The Wivenhoe Kayak Comp WILL be held on the lake at the same place as usual, however if anyone wishes to fish the river they can. Best of both worlds... :thumbsup
Cheers,
fitzy..
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Two is good I reckon, honestly, how many fish do you need for a feed ?
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Two is good I reckon, honestly, how many fish do you need for a feed ?
That depends on how many you have in your family, however I feel that the real issue that DEEDI are trying to push is the sustainability of some of our Bass fisheries.
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Its a very rare day when i actually keep a bass for a feed but i think the bag limit of 2 fish per person is fine for exactly that the sustainabililty of the fisheries.
Sure restocking takes place but fingerling of 50 or so mm not 300mm the legal size limit, i fear one day take will overlap the growth of the younger generation and quality of fish will be effected. Bass are a pretty slow growing fish in the bigger picture.
Just my views......
Steve
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Can't see any reason to change the bag limit. People who constantly catch their bag limit then freeze 'em annoy me. If you want to eat a fish do so staight out of the water. As far as feeding the family is concerned, that's false economy. Weigh up the cost of boat, fuel, car and fuel to get there plus fishing tackle it's cheaper to go to the shop. Don't forget about how many are allowed "in posession" and that includes the freezer. It takes the restockers a lot of time effort and money to put the fish in there, are we going to bitch if the price of a SIP goes up to handle the higher bag limit?
JD
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Unless dam's reach their maximum stocking densities , the bass bag limit does not need changing. Have any dams on the SIP reached their allowed( limit set by DEEDI ) stocking density yet/ever?
Cheers,
Dave.
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Unless dam's reach their maximum stocking densities , the bass bag limit does not need changing. Have any dams on the SIP reached their allowed( limit set by DEEDI ) stocking density yet/ever?
Cheers,
Dave.
Yes Dave, some fisheries have, and information given on the day of the workshop maybe better disclosed in regards to their stocking rates of Bass.
This is where the sustainability comes into it. What happens to a fishery if we saturate it with over stocked Bass? There's other stocked fish, bait fish, microscopic organisms and crustation life forms that make up the whole ecology of a fishery that we as anglers and stocking groups need to have some concideration for other than just Bass and I think this is why fisheries are wanting to push the limit higher.
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Fully stocked? A few are.
Some dams are recognised for numbers caught, some for trophy fisheries.
This is a not necessarily a deliberate ploy, (particularly those that are considered trophy dams) often its just how many fingerlings can be purchased.
There is only limited science behind the allowed stocking rates, its currently used as one size fits all IE you can stock the same rate if the dam is at 10% and been barren for years, or if its been through a major flood (and possibly lost a significant number of fish), or full with lots of food. Advice at Fernvale was treat allowed stocking number as maximum for best case scenario, certainly would not hurt to reduce in lean years. Most stocking groups cant come close to raising the funds to stock the allowed amount though. (Certainly not year after year).
Hopefully in the future we might get some further advice on stocking in lean years, but if we do reduce numbers stocked, it also affects viability of hatcheries.
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IMHO leave it at two, this helps for when the ratbags don't follow the rules & regs and fill the potato bags when they can >:(
SB8
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If they raise the limit in the dams, then they will have to raise the limit in the rivers..won't they, or do they propose a tag system like the barra, and who will fund the rangers for that??? will it come out of the SIPS fees and therefore cut into the pot for stocking, and that means less fish going in to the fish going out........aaarrggghhhhh I'm confudled now
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Theoretically they had a tag system at Awoonga for Barra in closed season, but I've never seen it used.
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You bring up a valid point to some degree Brad. If the limit still stays at 2 for our Wild Bass and an angler was caught with more than two in his possession downstream of a landlocked fishery, who's to say he didn't caught them further upstream in that impoundment?
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Dave - Same deal as for closed season really isn't.?
How do you prove they came from the dam and not downstream.
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I think the jump from two to five is too big, unless it's instant impact stuff that will be reduced later? Why not make it three? Also if Bass populations are getting too big then why not stock a natural predator? eg a limited amount cod or of Barra (catch n release only) depending on the location of the dam. Everyone likes to catch one of the big boys. What end of the scale do people want to control too? If it's larger fish why not have a comp to catch em and move them to rivers where they might be able to breed or maybe introduce and upper and lower limit of say between 35 - 40cm? Add to that a limit of three and there's room for improvement in the amount taken and leaving behind some good sized fish that will grow into nice specimens. Just don't set it in concrete so it can be adjusted if required? Personally I think an environment that controls itself (to a larger extent) is a better choice, than destocking someones preferred fish. What are dams there for i guess is another part of the equasion. Are they there simply for fisho's to chase their favourite brand or are they being developed as a part of an ecosytem that has been disrupted? We people seem to have a knack of disrupting things then searching for an answer of how to fix it whilst adding personal needs/wants. That's why these things are tricky, imho.
john
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Dave - Same deal as for closed season really isn't.?
How do you prove they came from the dam and not downstream.
Yeah mate, another grey area!
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G'day all,
I'd like to quickly take the opportunity to thank you all for constructively contributing to this thread and to inform you that I have emailed a letter to DEEDI officials venting your concerns to have the Bass take limits for impoundments to stay where they are at 2 Bass per person in their possession.
It'll be interesting to see what changes are made to the freshwater rules and regulations in the coming months throughout Queensland.
Thanks again! :youbeauty
Dave