Sweetwater Fishing Forums
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Borumba Fishing on May 27, 2012, 12:50:00 PM
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Should the Mary Valley Cod of which is a Native/Natural species listed as a (protected Species) in the Mary Valley, Wide Bay and Burnett areas be able to be targeted as per other impoundments
Within our creeks, rivers and impoundments are the introduction of tens of thousands of Murray River Cod from the Nerrandra Research Station in NSW and as quoted from Mr Don Tuma who worked with DPI&F for most of his working life in Brisbane, he quoted tens of thousands of Murray Cod have been introduced within our systems, therefore is there a generic pure blood Mary River Cod anymore.
If you intend to fish in the Cressbrook, Hinze, Maroon, Moogerah, North Pine, Somerset, Wivenhoe Dams, & the Bill Gunn Dam and Clarendon Dam you are allowed one Mary River Cod min 50cm per angler.
What are your thoughts for future fishing as most anglers practise catch and release
From experience, Mary River Cod are prolific throughout our river and creek systems.
Food for thought, will be interesting!!
Regards Graeme
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:OMG How do you reply to this.
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I'm still trying to read it, and ignore some of the assumptions made. Not real sure about 10s of thousands of Murray Cod released into "our" system. I know of some in farm dams where wivenhoe now is, but I've heard of none being electro fished in the Mary River system. As for most anglers being catch and release, where'd you pick up that gem?
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Hrrrmmmmmmm :walkplank
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It would be great to see some documentation and supporting data regarding this. I'm not sure if there has been many if any Murray Cod released into the Mary River system. There's been million on Murray's put into the Qld section of the Murray/Darling system (which covers 23% of the total catchment) & hundreds of thousands of Mary's put into the Mary system.
I'm a bit either way allowing MRCs to be targetted and caught in Borumba Dam as its not a natural environment, if the fish there are stocked using recreational fishing funds and the intention is for a recreational MRC fishery to be established on the lake. However I know from past experience the B&FP people will opposite the idea based upon the problems with enforcement. How do they tell the difference between a lake caught & river caught cod on the side of the road or in someone's freezer/icebox? I believe the lack of patrols & enforcement would see this scenario almost impossible to happen, but I can guarantee that is what will be said.
I would oppose the taking of Mary's in rivers & creeks of the Mary, Pine, Brisbane, Bremer, Coomera, Nerang, Logan, Caboolture & Albert on going until some serious population/recruitmemt studies are undertaken that prove that Marys are no longer critically endangered.
One problem that needs fixing is the rivers "upstream" of lakes/dams. Cod in these can be butchered like a cow if caught....WRONG.
eg there is no protection for MRCs caught in the stanley river at all & the Brisbane river above Wivenhoe, Samsonvale & Hinze dams are kill zones (bag/size limits apply)....
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Well this topic certinley created a mixed response.
If you doubt my word, which many of you have, just contact a Mr Don Tuma from Beerwah to verify all my data, please go straight ahead as it came straight from him verbally) and Don is also the producer of a 635 page book called Fil-o-Fish Australia who spent approx 40 years documenting and photographing every known Saltwater & Freshwater Fish Species and has done a fantastic job for identifaction purposes.
Don, as I stated worked most of his life with DPI&F in Brisbane and as the trains that came in from NSW with Murray River Fingerlings in large vat like containers, it was his job to ensure that all stock were healthy before being delived to North Coast Rail Stations for release into our Rivers Dams etc and he stated that many 10's of thousands have been released into our system, so my question still is - do you still think that we have pure generic Mary Cod ???
Don also stated that in those days noboby could tell the difference between a Murry River Cod and a Mary River Cod.
Ok, I have promoted catch and release for more than 30 years now and still do, so my question is why do we have many specific dams throughout SEQ that have been allocated to a daily Mary River Cod catch allotment per angler and yet numerous anglers that come to this area from (Vic. NSW & Qld) and feel that they are discriminated against targeting the Cod for a Photo and their release.
We in Qld appear to have double standards, ok for many but not the others.
Graeme
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Having just returned from Far North Qld and seen one "angler" fill 3 freezers I don't think we can trust a lot of people not to take what they can when they can. The "kill it and fillet" crew are still alive and well and enforcement is well behind the 8ball anyway. I would hate to see any change in Mary River Cod's protection status, and it should be state wide until firm scientific evidence exists that they are no longer in danger. By the way on the subject of enforcment, A freezer filler coming out of the Territory was grabbed and his freezer/s explored. The Police, who in the NT double as Fisheries inspectors releived him of his Ford F250, his 5th wheeler and his boat and fishing gear. He was left with what he stood up and and still has to face the music in the Darwin Court. We need more of this.
Cheers,
John
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so my question still is - do you still think that we have pure generic Mary Cod ???
Nah the MRC is a myth, I know I have never caught one. Caught a handful of Murray's though. It's like a unicorn bass for me. Can't get one.
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If you intend to fish in the Cressbrook, Hinze, Maroon, Moogerah, North Pine, Somerset, Wivenhoe Dams, & the Bill Gunn Dam and Clarendon Dam you are allowed one Mary River Cod min 50cm per angler.
Regards Graeme
So how do you know that any of these above dams have even/ever stocked MR Cod ? I have never seen any figures from any group about what and when they stock any species of fish and from what I heard - I'm lead to believe that fisheries do not have the correct figures either.
Mac
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I've personally released Mary River Cod into Lakes Somerset and Wivenhoe.
Table 4: Summary of official stockings of Mary River cod in impoundments in southeast Queensland.
IMPOUNDMENT PERIOD STOCKED NUMBER STOCKED
Baroon Pocket Dam 1991-94 4600
Borumba Dam 1992-93 2150
Lake Macdonald 1983-98 30000
Wivenhoe Dam 1992-98 5700
Somerset Dam 1988-98 6907
Cressbrook Dam 1989-98 4603
Moogerah Dam 1990-98 2100
Hinze Dam 1991-94 6560
Maroon Dam 1987-98 2510
Lake Samsonvale 1993-95 1960
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I'm still trying to read it, and ignore some of the assumptions made. Not real sure about 10s of thousands of Murray Cod released into "our" system. I know of some in farm dams where wivenhoe now is, but I've heard of none being electro fished in the Mary River system. As for most anglers being catch and release, where'd you pick up that gem?
There are absolutley no assumptions made in my article, just contact Mr Don Tuma from Beerwah to confirm all data.
Don stated that during his work with DPI&F that 10's of thousands of stock were released into our systeme.
Re - Catch and Release - over the past 30 odd years of being in the fishing business I suspect that the majority of my customers are truthfull unlike a few others.
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Sorry, I don't know Don Tuma from Beerwah so I cannot contact him. Perhaps you could ask him to come on here and publicly state his opinion. I'm unsure as to what you are hoping to accomplish from this. You obviously have a vested interest, operating a fishing business on the Mary River, I can see bucks to be made for you by having open slather. I'm sure the buyers of your Prawns and Mullet Heads are hard core catch and release fans in the river there too. 30 years in the fishing industry, and you believe that Mary River Cod don't exist. Sorry, all I can do is shake my head and laugh at you. Do you know many people who have caught both Mary River Cod and Murray Cod? Have you ever compared a Mary River Cod to a Murray Cod? Is Mr. Tuma the only person from DPI & F who is telling the truth. Are all the others lying to us, and Parliament about the existence of Mary River Cod in the Mary River. Was the Traveston Dam excersize a farce? Were they really breeding Murray Cod at Gerry Cook Hatchery in Cooroy? This: http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/threatened/publications/recovery/mary-river-cod/pubs/mary-river-cod.pdf (http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/threatened/publications/recovery/mary-river-cod/pubs/mary-river-cod.pdf) was obviously a scam too.
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I have always found Graeme a pretty reasonable bloke and believe he does have a geniune interest in the fishery and its sustainability. I have caught a MRC in the upper Mary River and several Murrays out west and yes there were differences in the fish, so i would think that the MRC existing in the Mary River are pure MRC.
I for one would hate to see the MRC come off the protected list. I don't know why, but out of all the fish I have ever caught, it was the one that gave me butterflies in the guts when I realised what it was when still fighting it and I was more nervous and careful to ensure it was handed and released safely than I have ever been before or since with any other fish. Can't explain it, but that was its effect.
There are still too many reports of meato type fisherman about (such as described by John) to assume anything else would happen if the rules would change.
My opinion only.
Steve
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There is some recent DNA sampling that has been done on the cod in the Mary River.
No murray cod cod DNA found. There is a variation found from the cod in the Mary River proper & Tinana Creek.
I'm thinking this whole Murray in the Mary thing is either:
A - a conspiracy / cover up,
B - Chinese whispers / misunderstanding on the murray cod in the mary thing, or
C - someone is full of it
Maybe global warming killed off those tens of thousands of nasty western fish. :OMG
Agendas aside. I can't see the Status Quo changing any time soon without some evidence to support the 2nd hand verbal report that started this topic.
:popcorn)
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There have been Murray Cod stocked in Boondooma, BP, Moondara, Fairbairn and only former DPI staff like Don know where else in the Burnett, Burdekin, Fitzroy/Dawson and God knows where else, this is fact.
Mary's stocked in Boondooma and BP as well.
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Has anyone actually caught a MRC in North pine?
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I know of at least one caught at Bullockys rest during the drought and have seen a couple that were electrofished below the dam by fisheries during lungy recoveries.
Cheers
Ray
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Yes 9 confirmed captures from the dam from a little 25cm tacker to 90cm + all released.
From below the dam where they are No Take, 12 confirmed (2 possibly caught twice) 4 electrofished, 1 salvaged, 1 line caught all returned to the dam. 3 caught and released (one of these most likely one of the ones electrofished) 2 caught and taken one of these most likely one of the ones caught and released. One 62cm fish taken in the 09 Bass closed season by an angler who thought it was a murray, had no idea there was a closed season or Mary's and was fishing there as a result of reports of the location on another forum.
Also have the complete stocking history of MRC for the entire Pine Rivers Catchment.
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I feel that DNA testing should sort out the discussion.
The problem that I feel is more important is the protection of the fish in those river systems that Fitzy refered to.
I have been carring out 'Catch and Release' in the Stanley for aprox 5 years now and have seen a massive decline in the MR Cod to the stage where there may be none left. It is years since the last report of one being caught by the local club.
Also reports keep coming to me of long lines being seen across the River. Bloody nice hey.
If there is any possibility at all of Cod reproducing in these streams then they should be "closed off to all fishing" in the snaggy areas. Then get back to releasing fingerlings again. These area would make great feeder nurseries for the dams below.
It would be so easy to test if some of the hatchery Cod might like a feed of Tilapia finglings. This could be a food source and a reason for large Cod to enter the dams.
For every Bass landed in Somerset there 10 to 15 Tilapa with half a dozen Eail Tails as well. That is what the future holds unless some effort is made to change things.
Leave it with you fellas. Shoot my ideas up if you must but dont miss the big picture.
Regards BG
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Yes 9 confirmed captures from the dam from a little 25cm tacker to 90cm + all released.
From below the dam where they are No Take, 12 confirmed (2 possibly caught twice) 4 electrofished, 1 salvaged, 1 line caught all returned to the dam. 3 caught and released (one of these most likely one of the ones electrofished) 2 caught and taken one of these most likely one of the ones caught and released. One 62cm fish taken in the 09 Bass closed season by an angler who thought it was a murray, had no idea there was a closed season or Mary's and was fishing there as a result of reports of the location on another forum.
Also have the complete stocking history of MRC for the entire Pine Rivers Catchment.
Thanks, the stocking history would make interesting reading
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Total stockings for the Pine Rivers Catchment.
Lake Samsonvale 1993/1994 to 2008/2009. 29 030
Lake Kurwongbah 2008/2009. 500
2007 to 2009. 1800 (approx) stocked into private waters in the catchment.
Full breakdown of PRFMA stockings at www.prfma.com.au/fishstocking.html (http://www.prfma.com.au/fishstocking.html)
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thanks mate
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Elops, are there any hatcheries still producing MRC?
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Elops, are there any hatcheries still producing MRC?
One that has limited broodstock and not much success collecting any thus far due to the amount of rain we have had.
No idea what is happening at Gerry Cook or other proposed hatchery, someone from the relevant department may know ? :popcorn)
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Hi Graeme
I have worked for DPI&F or at least one of its forms for more then 21 yrs now, and have been involved directly with the stocking program and overseeing the stocking of MRC amongst other things. I also worked with Don, say hello next time your talking to him. At least in my time no Murray cod were stocked in the Mary and I have never found any records nor heard any reports of them being stocked into the Mary in any numbers and trust me I have hunted, because these types of rumours have been around since Adam was a boy. All the genetic samples for the description of the MRC as a distinct species were collected long after Don left the Department, those involved with the Taxonomic work were aware of the rumours and found at least all those that were sampled were a distinct species and showed no indications of hybridisation with Murray Cod, so even if some were released they didn't survive. Early results from more recent genetic studies have also found no Murray cod genetic mateial in any of the 100 or so fish sampled. The other part of your story that puzzles me is the movement of fish in bulk tankers on the rail system, to my knowledge we have never moved fish at least bulk numbers by the rail system, as it was always way too slow. I was told by the original DPI&F officers that commenced the Recreational Fishing Enhancement project that in the early days of the stocking program those fish sourced from NSW were most often shipped in boxes in light planes.
Stephen, Murray Cod were stocked under direction from the Minister at the time into Boondooma, Fairbairn and an offstream storage on the Thompson River in the Lake Eyre basin. Those stocked into Bjelke Petersen were supposedly MR cod from Abington Hatchery and I can't recall any going into Moondara but thats not to say they didn't.
Steve
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Thanks Steve.
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Thank you Mr Brooks
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Thanks for the relevant information Steve.
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I'd say this myth has been well and truly busted.
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Thanks brooksy! :Clap)
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THat would seem to put an end to the discussion. Nicely written too Brooksy, ever think og going into diplomacy?
JD