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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: elops on January 03, 2013, 03:43:57 PM

Title: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: elops on January 03, 2013, 03:43:57 PM
Queenslands No Take legislation under the Fisheries Act is very well defined and clear cut.
Why is it ignored by every forum, magazine, journo and angler who are well aware of it ?
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: Crackers on January 03, 2013, 03:58:00 PM
Queenslands No Take legislation under the Fisheries Act is very well defined and clear cut.
Why is it ignored by every forum, magazine, journo and angler who are well aware of it ?
Hi elops

Can you give some examples of what you mean?

Do you mean magazine guys fishing in the Brisbane River during bass closed season and using pictures of the bass in their stories?
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: Binder on January 03, 2013, 06:59:01 PM
Might be well defined in the fisheries act, its not well defined in the rule books handed out to joe bloggs your average fisho. EG Barra specifically states no catch and release, nothing (or in one version a  vague reference) for bass, so people assume if it says you cant catch and release for Barra, but doesn't say anything about bass, then you must be able to do it.
Then everyone who asks a question about the rules from someone at fisheries gets a different interpretation of the rules to boot.

And of course then tied in to that is the stupidity of what waterways are exempt from the closed season and which ones are not. People know very well a dam fish is a dam fish regardless of what dam it is in, it becomes very easy for people to break rules they know are wrong, then its easier to break them where it actually matters.

Which all leads to a total disrespect of the fishing rules.

Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: UBK on January 03, 2013, 08:55:07 PM
It is not ignored by me........
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: Jason L on January 03, 2013, 10:12:44 PM
Are you talking about regulated fish?
The Fisheries Act will identify unlawful acts, which will correspond to the size and bag limits set by the government. http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/documents/Fisheries_RecreationalFishing/Rec-fishing-fresh-waters-A4.pdf (http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/documents/Fisheries_RecreationalFishing/Rec-fishing-fresh-waters-A4.pdf)
(I think forums like this one aid in educating the average fisher which is probably more than you would get anywhere else; there is a lot of people on here with a lot of knowledge).

As long as you are abiding by the season, size and bag limits set by the Government you will have no problems; as for the others not doing the right thing, we can only hope they don't do too much harm.

p.s If you want to have a look National Code of Practice for Recreational and Sport Fishing then you will see how grey this area is.
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: Binder on January 04, 2013, 05:36:11 AM
It is not ignored by me........

Or me, but I tell you its pretty lonely our side of the fence at times!
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: UBK on January 04, 2013, 06:31:12 AM
That is true!
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: Brett Guy on January 04, 2013, 09:03:35 AM
While I completely agree with the no targeting Barra etc during their spawning season and abide by the spirit of the rules by not even targeting them for C&R(luckily I have tinaroo to focus on during the closed seaon), I know in my head that it is a useless concept  while they continue to allow nets in our estuaries. Barra stocks will never recover properly while this is allowed so to a degree I think 'whats the point?' It also amuses me that while some species are selected for protection during their reproductive cycle, with others it is the primary time to target them, often by professional fishos using techniques that take entire gatherings, not just one or two here and there. Hypocrisy anyone?
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: mackdonalds on January 04, 2013, 12:46:45 PM
I would really love to know why I see photo's of Mary River Cod that are caught from area's that are not impoundments ie river's and creek's and the fish are taken from the water for photographing , why is it they not released immediately..... :Hunting)
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: UBK on January 04, 2013, 02:02:25 PM
That is the grey area with all fish and closed seasons. Even if people release them but take a happy snap, they just use the "but I am not keeping it" excuse... Also it states not to take them from the water, sometimes the excuse can be, it is safer or easier to dehook in the boat or bank.. With all the sharks about in certain areas, I would feel safer taking the fish from the water and returning it quickly after removing the hooks.
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: Binder on January 04, 2013, 06:15:28 PM
I would really love to know why I see photo's of Mary River Cod that are caught from area's that are not impoundments ie river's and creek's and the fish are taken from the water for photographing , why is it they not released immediately..... :Hunting)

If you want to follow the letter of the law, if its not their natural range, your not allowed to put them back.  :o
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: Sweetwater on January 04, 2013, 08:54:04 PM
If you want to follow the letter of the law, if its not their natural range, your not allowed to put them back.  :o

Where does that info come from Andrew? I'm confused..........MRC's are not native to the mid & lower Brisbane River, but are totally protected (ie MUST be returned to the water). How can they be totally protected and thus immediately released if you are not allowed to put them back? AND, upstream of Wivenhoe Dam wall MRC's are on longer protected but regulated by size & bag limits that dictate an under size fish MUST be returned to the water???

Something doesn't add up....
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: Sweetwater on January 04, 2013, 09:06:21 PM
Let's face it... Qld's Fisheries Act / Regs are worded badly. It doesn't matter what the "intent is", if it reads like rice on brail nobody is going to be understumble it.

Further, there are many many many inconsistencies in some areas, eg bass closed season applied to waters where they cannot get on their own; above dams weirs AND in waters where bass are translocated.... WHY protect stocked fish FFS?

If it all very wishy washy, the general public won't respect them & that's pretty much where we sit right now unfortunately.

I'll praise any Fisheries Minister who has the coconuts to make the necessary changes so that:
A- the fish are adequately managed
B- recreational anglers can participate in their chosed activity in a manner easily defined and do so without fear or favour...

In the mean time, IMHO anyone who sits in that chair & doesn't do the right thing is only there for their own benefit.

Also, all the legislation under the sun is worth Jack Diddley if there is no enforcement to back it up. Again, that's pretty much where we currently sit...........

It's not bloody rocket surgery.....
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: Binder on January 05, 2013, 03:22:46 AM
Quote from the Fishing rules and regulations booklet.

"Tilapia, carp and gambusia are some of the declared species of noxious fish. Along with other noxious and non-indigenous fish, they must not be released into Queensland waters or be used as bait, either live or dead. "

If its not their natural range, they are non indigenous - yes?

Another example of the cr@p in the guides handed out to people!
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: rayke1938 on January 05, 2013, 04:06:18 AM
Quote from the Fishing rules and regulations booklet.

"Tilapia, carp and gambusia are some of the declared species of noxious fish.Along with other noxious and non-indigenous fish, they must not be released into Queensland waters or be used as bait, either live or dead.

If its not their natural range, they are non indigenous - yes?

Another example of the cr@p in the guides handed out to people!
Which is why a lot of people destroy every yella caught in the brisbane and Pine rivers.
 Another inconstancy I have a letter in writing stating that it is legal to use dead redclaw as bait wheras  ".Along with other noxious and non-indigenous fish, they must not be released into Queensland waters or be used as bait, either live or dead. "


No wonder the bush lawyers have a field day twisting the regs to suit their own purposes.
 I always put my questions in writing rather than rely on some clerks interruption where you have no comeback it the information that you are given is incorrect.
 Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: BR65 on January 05, 2013, 07:41:21 AM
I would really love to know why I see photo's of Mary River Cod that are caught from area's that are not impoundments ie river's and creek's and the fish are taken from the water for photographing , why is it they not released immediately..... :Hunting)

Funny you should say that.
On another forum, I raised this exact same issue, in a very polite way I acknowledged that no doubt the MRC was Bass by catch, and ol mate handled and released it carefully, but also pointed out that fisheries were looking at people waving around pictures of MRC with regards to the no take regs, and perhaps if he wanted a pic, take it whilst the fish was in the water and he was un-hooking it. The mod there offered ol mate the opportunity to delete my thoughts as I was "highjacking" the report.
Others were asking for the GPS co-ords.
You can lead a horse to water, you cant make it drink....
Happy New Year all, tight lines
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: UBK on January 05, 2013, 08:02:41 AM
What a load of #%@& B... They may aswell promote c&r of MRC
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: mackdonalds on January 05, 2013, 08:53:46 AM
What a load of #%@& B... They may aswell promote c&r of MRC

On the forum BR65 speaks of..........from what I've heard "they do" and proud of it, even gave the person an award  :Hunting)
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: elops on January 05, 2013, 09:47:08 AM
Crackers  if you want examples use the search function on any forum, read any mag etc. etc.

Andrew  not talking about joe bloggs, as stated refering to those who are well aware of it yet deliberately and intentionally ignore it or are complicit in it.

Brett  closed seasons apply to the commercial sector as well.

mackdonalds  I also would like to know why we see these pics, one of the reasons for this thread.

UBK  Grey area ? no grey area, No Take is clearly defined in the act

Andrew to add to Sweetwaters answer to the non indiginous native point,in the streams outside of the Mary catchment mariensis have been stocked as part of the MRCRRP, not non indiginous natives a critically endangered species stocked to replace an extinct/extirpated species.

BR65  again the point of the thread the legislation is there, the offender and the medium are well aware of it yet it is treated with deliberate contempt.


 
   
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: UBK on January 07, 2013, 07:49:26 AM
The grey area is people interperating no take, as no take. Saying, alls good it was released, not taken. Thats what I meant. Here, direct from the website: NO TAKE SPECIES IN ALL OTHER WATERS. If accidentally caught, these species should immediately and carefully be returned to the water.
So in reading that, people will catch and interperate that as, I can take a happy snap before returning it quickly.
There is your grey area.
They need to clearly state in every part of the site and legislation that you can not take a picture even.. Something along those lines anyhow
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: rayke1938 on January 07, 2013, 12:15:03 PM
It is quite plain the definitional of immediate is without delay. Taking a photo is a delay.
Here is some related correspondence form 2009 that is still pertinent.
 This is the definition of “take” as stated in the Fisheries Act 1994

 

take fisheries resources includes—

(a) catch, gather, kill or obtain from water or land; and

(b) attempt to catch, gather, kill or obtain from water or

land; and

(c) land (from a boat or in another way), bring ashore or

tranship.

 

You will notice that attempting to catch fish is included in the definition of take and therefore my understanding is that if someone is attempting to take a species of fish during a closed season they would be in breech of the regulation.

 

Cheers

Anita

<><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><
Anita Ramage
Senior Fisheries Management Officer
Fisheries Harvest Management
Queensland Primary Industries and Fisheries
Department of Education, Economic Development and Innovation (DEEDI)
Phone  07 3247 5009  Facsimile 07 3229 8146
Email anita.ramage@deedi.qld.gov.au
Website www.dpi.qld.gov.au (http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au) Call Centre 13 25 23
Queensland celebrates its 150th anniversary in 2009. Check out what's on today at www.q150.qld.gov.au (http://www.q150.qld.gov.au)
 Although Anita has moved on the law has not changed.
 I also have some correspondence somewhere that states that when A fish is taken from the water it is deemed to be "taken" now let us see all the arguments what about removing hooks etc?
 Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: aussiebasser on January 07, 2013, 01:38:44 PM
Part of the problem, no the whole problem, is that the definition of the word "take" by Queensland
Fisheries matches no other English speaking organisation's definition of the word "take"
From the Cambridge Dictionary
Quote
Take:

[T] to remove something, especially without permission

Has anything been taken (= stolen)?

Here's your pen, I took it by mistake.

All possessions had been taken from her.



[T] to subtract a number (= remove it from another number)

If you take 4 from 12 you get 8.

When Government departments start using the English language like normal people, without inventing new meanings for common words, people may start understanding the rules.

Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: rayke1938 on January 07, 2013, 01:56:42 PM
I think that you will find that most legislation is written in very specific wording and in this case they even give their interpretation of the act of taking in the act itself.
I note that NSW also use the word take and taken in their act.
 Cheers
Ray 
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: aussiebasser on January 07, 2013, 02:27:53 PM
If attempting to catch a fish is the same as taking a fish why not simply have a "No Target" rule.  To me, a "No Take" rule should mean you can target them, but not take them.  Not all anglers are able to read the Fisheries Act 1994.
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: k.hutchby on January 07, 2013, 02:43:18 PM
i ask the question to all? if you hook a metre plus barra this time of the year whilst targeting other species (i.e. jacks) with a lure with trebles, do you attempt to unhook it boatside whilst the fish is in the water (especially using trebles).  freakin dangerous to angler and fish to my knowledge.   
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: Crackers on January 07, 2013, 04:54:57 PM
The regulations should be amended to include the word "target" next to "take" or use both, just to make it clear.

At the same time, fix the bull cra@p closes season exemptions eg bass in Ewen Maddock Dam, that and many others are a joke.

I hope fisheries department staff read this. Would like to get their oppinions.  :?)  :popcorn)

I recon if you're leaning over the side of a boat unhooking a fish, especially in croc water, you're asking for trouble.

***************

If all of the above is true, then other regulated species (has a bag / size limit or closed season) must be treated the same way? Example, if you already have 2 bass on board in a bass tournament & you keep fishing, then you're breaking the law as you are still targetting them yes?
Also, if you happen to catch an undersized yellowbelly, you cannot bring it into the boat to remove the hooks? I can see alot of fish getting ripped up severly with anglers trying to removed hooks while the fish is still on the water.
How do you know its under sized until you lay it on your ruler? Do we also have to measure the fish in the water as well?

What if you're fishing from a jetty or rock wall. Are you supposed to dive off the cliff or yetty to remove the hooks so that the fish is kept in the water? I'd like Ms Ramage to explain how little johnny is going to achieve that without getting injured or worse... That being the case, there needs to be regs to include things like, "No fishing is permitted if angler is any higher than one meter above the water".

What about people with a disability fishing & having to roll a wheel chair into the water to unhook a fish? How are they supposed to go fishing with any reasonable way of not breaking the law.

Not workable IMO
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: Jason L on January 07, 2013, 06:13:09 PM
I hope this clears it up; the Act also references the management plan for that particular fishery, in our case those laws/rules set by the DPI. (the key word is unlawfully)

Qld Fisheries Act 1994

Clause 78
Prohibited acts about regulated fish
(1) A person must not unlawfully take, possess, use or sell a
regulated fish.
(2) A person must not mutilate or disfigure a regulated fish with
intent to hide the fact that it is a regulated fish.

Clause 92
Duty of person who takes or possesses noxious or
non-indigenous fisheries resources

(1) A person who unlawfully takes or possesses noxious or
non-indigenous fisheries resources must immediately—
(a) if the fisheries resource is a fish—kill it; or
(b) if the fisheries resource is a plant—destroy it.

Definition from the Act Dictionary:
unlawfully means without authority under this Act or other
legal authority, justification or excuse under an Act.
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: rayke1938 on January 07, 2013, 07:14:02 PM
Dont bother only posting here and write a letter to the minister Agriculture@ministerial.qld.gov.au and then post his response( if any) here
 I release 90% of my bass and yellas from the side of the boat just using long nose pliers and if a bass or yella is under 35cm they are not worth keeping.
 Barra are definitely a different proposition and a landing net is needed in most cases especially if it is green.
 The other wotiffs are the exception and in those cases common sense should prevail and if the fish is released humanly and immediately you should have no problems with inspectors.
Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: Binder on January 07, 2013, 07:24:09 PM
i ask the question to all? if you hook a metre plus barra this time of the year whilst targeting other species (i.e. jacks) with a lure with trebles, do you attempt to unhook it boatside whilst the fish is in the water (especially using trebles).  freakin dangerous to angler and fish to my knowledge.

You have to get it in the boat to measure it.  ::)
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: Binder on January 07, 2013, 07:34:37 PM

If all of the above is true, then other regulated species (has a bag / size limit or closed season) must be treated the same way? Example, if you already have 2 bass on board in a bass tournament & you keep fishing, then you're breaking the law as you are still targeting them yes?

Thats where their dodgy rule book is also very helpful (in creating confusion), it says you may continue to target barra when you have your possession limit of one on listed stocked impoundments (18 of them), but its vague about that to - it says "may continue to fish once possession limit of 1 is reached", so obviously it is in closed season they are talking about.  I read that as you can target barra in closed season on the SIP listed dams when you have your possession limit already, But you can not target barra when you have your possession limit in open season on those dams, or at any other other time or place.

But it says nothing at all for outside of closed season, outside of dams or other species, you have to interpret that. So does "Joe Smo average bogan fisher" read that as , "see that example? it must mean you keep fishing for all fish", or does he read it and think, hmm they specifically say its ok for that one, so as they haven't mentioned any other species it must only be for that species? (ok, Joe Smo, bogan fisher, probably cant put together that many words in his head without moving his lips, or even translate your allowed to do it when the possession limit is 1 as meaning closed season,  but you get the drift).

Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: Junglefisher on January 08, 2013, 06:54:34 AM
i ask the question to all? if you hook a metre plus barra this time of the year whilst targeting other species (i.e. jacks) with a lure with trebles, do you attempt to unhook it boatside whilst the fish is in the water (especially using trebles).  freakin dangerous to angler and fish to my knowledge.

Well, according to the wording of Rayke's reply, you should not have been fishing in an area where there might me barra as fishing anywhere you might catch one is "taking' them.
That's one reason why the wording / legislation is often ignored, it does not make sense. You'd be closing all near shore or inland  fishing north of the sunshine coast for the entire barra season.
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: rayke1938 on January 08, 2013, 04:57:17 PM
And what chance do we have to educate the general public with irresponsible journalism such as this
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/barramundi-reel-deal-for-coast-fisherman/comments-e6freoof-1226549441067. (http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/barramundi-reel-deal-for-coast-fisherman/comments-e6freoof-1226549441067.)
The paper were fully aware that its closed season and yet they still go ahead and publish.
 Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: BR65 on January 08, 2013, 08:16:05 PM
Same paper, think it was 3 weeks ago,rust water I know, but the precedent was sent
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: rayke1938 on January 08, 2013, 08:20:31 PM
Same paper, think it was 3 weeks ago,rust water I know, but the precedent was sent
At least they say it was released.
Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: aussiebasser on January 08, 2013, 08:51:20 PM
Both reports advised anglers of the closed season dates. 

According to DPI Barramundi do not exist below The Mary, so they could not possibly prosecute.  These fish must be feral and probably should be removed.  Wouldn't it be illegal to knowingly release Barramundi south of their known area?   If its not, why the hell aren't we releasing them into Wivenhoe?
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: BR65 on January 08, 2013, 08:56:35 PM
Dont know if your serious about Wivenhoe Dale?
Would you want the pain of a cold winter barra kill off?
Can of worms, the whole thing, but its certainly across quite a few boards at the moment, good to see people asking some questions, answers mite not allways be there, but little steps to start
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: rayke1938 on January 09, 2013, 05:24:13 AM
Back to the original question is not the problem the lack of enforcement rather than the legislation itself?
If there was more enforcement and its subsequent publicity would not more people be aware of the law and if there are loopholes the legal eagles would take advantage of these and then the pollies would be forced to act to close the loopholes.
Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: aussiebasser on January 09, 2013, 06:33:35 AM
Dont know if your serious about Wivenhoe Dale?
Would you want the pain of a cold winter barra kill off?
Can of worms, the whole thing, but its certainly across quite a few boards at the moment, good to see people asking some questions, answers mite not allways be there, but little steps to start
Why didn't the fish in the photos die off last winter?
If all this is really about two Barra captures on the Gold Coast being reported in the local paper, don't we think there may be more important things to worry about?
If it's about fish frames in bins in Mackay, then yes, ring the Fisheries Hotline on 1800 018 116.  Every member here should have that number in their phone anyway.
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: rayke1938 on January 09, 2013, 07:27:09 AM
For the last couple of years barra have been regularly caught in Noosa, Maroochy,Brisbane,Logan,Coomera and Nerang rivers too many to be pet fish releases. I would assume that they could be post flood dam escapees who have been living in cooler dam waters making their way south looking for cooler waters.
 Will have to wait for some tagged fish recaptures to see where they are coming from.
I too would like to see barra stocked into local SEQ dams.
Lenthalls has proved that they co exist with bass and yellas and maybe they could reduce the forky and banded grunter local populations.
Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: BR65 on January 09, 2013, 07:49:38 AM
Why didn't the fish in the photos die off last winter?
If all this is really about two Barra captures on the Gold Coast being reported in the local paper, don't we think there may be more important things to worry about?
If it's about fish frames in bins in Mackay, then yes, ring the Fisheries Hotline on 1800 018 116.  Every member here should have that number in their phone anyway.

I dunno mate, why dont the fish die in lenthalls every winter - some seasons are more severe than others, or they had a nice little salt water hidey hole maybe?
I think the GC barra is a real sticking point because it has been openly, can I use the word "flaunted", in public - its a non spoken go ahead to the public that targetting, and killing a no take species is accetable.
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: elops on January 09, 2013, 10:56:20 AM
From the latest Queensland Recreational Boating and Fishing Guide the 2011-2012 edition.
Closed Seasons.
Barramundi. "Throughout the Queensland east coast, a closed season applies to Barramundi from midday 1 November to midday 1 Febuary."
Pretty sure the Gold Coast is on the Queensland east coast, pic of a very dead Barra  in the Gold Coast Bulliten yesterday from the Coomera.
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: UBK on January 09, 2013, 12:34:19 PM
Yep, saw that. They are promoting them, virtually congratulating him on it. Then 1 small sentence about closed season
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: fishfolk on January 09, 2013, 01:15:11 PM
Not sure why the paper is coming under the wrath of forum contributors??
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: UBK on January 09, 2013, 01:28:23 PM
Why wouldn't it be? They are all but promoting the targeting of barra??
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: fishfolk on January 09, 2013, 01:35:05 PM
No. They are just reporting that some clown has taken a barramundi in the Coomera River - Nothing unusual about that. They just made the point that it was closed season for barramundi on the east coast. The media are the media - they didn't catch the fish!!! Why so much angst???
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: UBK on January 09, 2013, 01:36:43 PM
-_- .......
I am unsure which article you read. But I read a courier mail article which all but promoted it, then one sentence saying it was closed season.
However that said, I just read an article saying he will probably fined hard for it. Bloody good.
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: fishfolk on January 09, 2013, 01:54:12 PM
Sorry. I haven't read anything where the papers are 'promoting' it - only reporting it.

I wonder if he will get prosecuted - he would be an 'idiot' to say he caught it and to still have it in his possession. Then again!!
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: aussiebasser on January 09, 2013, 02:29:36 PM
I don't think the wording of the rules is in question in the example where the angler is displaying the dead fish.  I don't see where the newspaper is promoting his actions.  In the second examply, it clearly states that the fish was released alive and again they remind people of the closed the season.  Next we'll see the radio stations blamed for the road toll because they tell us where the speed cameras are.  I'll be honest, if I'm fishing for Jacks in the Coomera and catch a metre Barra I'll take a picture or two of it and then release it.  I just won't submit the picture the either the newspaper or the local tackle shop who may have submitted the photo.
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: fishfolk on January 09, 2013, 03:06:56 PM
Ok.....let's get to the wording of the legislation.....

I will offer this right from the start......."Law-makers are not law-writers who in turn are not law-enforcers" add to this..."there is always grey areas in law, no matter how black and white it is!!"

I do like the question about 'attempt to take' a species that has a bag limit and the angler has reached their limit (the upgrade rule) - interesting question. I would assume that Anita Ramage's previous response would be pertinent and correct...Is that what QB&FP would consider when evaluating the merits of the alleged offence - perhaps ??? depending on the alleged offenders response to the question and general attitude(??)

I have an inkling the definition of the word "take" was included in the 1997 Act specifically designed to address issues of certain fishing methods that could only target a certain fish species (i.e. Tropical rock lobster (maybe) - I am only guessing but it may be present in the back of my brain for a reason!!, prawn ???)

There is no rule about targeting or taking non-indigenous species in Queensland - there is a law about returning them to the water (as someone has pointed out previously). I will have to ask a couple of questions and look at the legislation properly to get an exact response to that question asked previously.

I will do some looking....
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: UBK on January 09, 2013, 03:31:42 PM
How could it have been released. There have been 2 different pictures I have seen, one at the back of his van, one at what appears to be a house in construction..??
Well it came across like a promotion, what they should have done is do an article more about closed season and the rules and reg that relate. A caption under a photo was *** with his trophy catch.  I thought that was a pretty stupid caption for an out of season capture...
I guess i might be wrong however.. Just my 2 cents
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: fishfolk on January 09, 2013, 03:39:56 PM
How could it have been released. There have been 2 different pictures I have seen, one at the back of his van, one at what appears to be a house in construction..??
Well it came across like a promotion, what they should have done is do an article more about closed season and the rules and reg that relate. A caption under a photo was *** with his trophy catch.  I thought that was a pretty stupid caption for an out of season capture...
I guess i might be wrong however.. Just my 2 cents

Well...so far he has made no admission of guilt as to the taking of the fish to an authorised officer.....and he would be 'stupid' to have it still in his freezer when QB&FP knock on his door to enquire.....no possession - no offence!!!
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: UBK on January 09, 2013, 03:43:47 PM
Yeah he would be an idiot to still have it, not wrong. It's a shame, it looks very dead in both shots I saw. But what can ya do... Idiots still prevail as long as they can continue to get away with it..
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: k.hutchby on January 09, 2013, 03:49:25 PM


I have an inkling the definition of the word "take" was included in the 1997 Act specifically designed to address issues of certain fishing methods that could only target a certain fish species (i.e. Tropical rock lobster (maybe) - I am only guessing but it may be present in the back of my brain for a reason!!, prawn ???)


from memory this term was included in the qld legislation for tropical rock lobsters and female crabs in 1997, as a replacement for possession.  At the same time i was working for NSW Fisheries on the Pipi collection (during the final stages of my thesis) and followed the same path except for bait utilisation. 
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: Jason L on January 09, 2013, 05:28:46 PM
If its a regulated fish, you can't unlawfully take, possess or sell it. (Clause 78 of the Act)
Unlawfully would mean the rules set by the Regulations and the DPI (bag limits, season, sizes, weight, volume, etc..), so if it was a barra (a regulated fish) the laws set by the Regulations and the DPI for that species would apply, regardless of where it was caught (excluding dams and farms).
The DPI controls the Management Plan for Qld Fisheries; have a look at the  Fishing Regulations 2008, Schedule 2 (Fish Regulated Seperately) it lists all the regulated fish, what they are regulated by and the prohibited activities regarding regulated fish.

Cheers
Jason
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: Binder on January 09, 2013, 07:20:41 PM
Wouldn't matter, only a boofhead would cop a fine.

When DPI rolled up - you would just say, caught it up at bli bli on the weekend mate, (or lenthals) spun a yarn to the paper and they were silly enough to swallow it and post the story in the paper..
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: mackdonalds on January 10, 2013, 07:52:20 AM
http://www.sweetwaterfishing.com.au/Forum/index.php/topic,4899.msg20426/topicseen.html#new (http://www.sweetwaterfishing.com.au/Forum/index.php/topic,4899.msg20426/topicseen.html#new)

What more needs to be said.....
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: fishfolk on January 10, 2013, 09:17:56 AM
If its a regulated fish, you can't unlawfully take, possess or sell it. (Clause 78 of the Act)
Unlawfully would mean the rules set by the Regulations and the DPI (bag limits, season, sizes, weight, volume, etc..), so if it was a barra (a regulated fish) the laws set by the Regulations and the DPI for that species would apply, regardless of where it was caught (excluding dams and farms).
The DPI controls the Management Plan for Qld Fisheries; have a look at the  Fishing Regulations 2008, Schedule 2 (Fish Regulated Seperately) it lists all the regulated fish, what they are regulated by and the prohibited activities regarding regulated fish.

Cheers
Jason

What is a regulated fish??? What are you referring to??? Just so i can be clear.....BTW - no such beast as DPI...either Fisheries Queensland or more correctly Dept of Agriculture, Fisheries & Forestry
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: fishfolk on January 10, 2013, 09:19:18 AM
[url]http://www.sweetwaterfishing.com.au/Forum/index.php/topic,4899.msg20426/topicseen.html#new[/url] ([url]http://www.sweetwaterfishing.com.au/Forum/index.php/topic,4899.msg20426/topicseen.html#new[/url])

What more needs to be said.....


Sorry Macs...but you need to say it????  I'm not sure of the relevence!!!
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: aussiebasser on January 10, 2013, 09:24:12 AM
Sorry Macs...but you need to say it????  I'm not sure of the relevence!!!
I gather he's referring to photographs of an undersize Bass and Cod being published on this site. 
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: fishfolk on January 10, 2013, 09:45:37 AM
Ohhhhhhh.....................Hmmmmmmmmmmm........ You guys are thinking about this way toooooooo much.

Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: Crackers on January 10, 2013, 10:54:52 AM
Reading through all of this, I'm beginning to think  "at what point do you release a fish" is all a storm in a tea cup. Most "reasonable" people acknowledge that a fish needs to be landed either into a boat or canoe or onto the land to identify it, measure it and remove hooks. If taking a photo of a memorable catch while doing the above tips the balance (in some peoples minds) from "release" to "take" then they really need to loosen up a bit. 

If I caught a big BARRA at the Gold Coast at any time of year I would definitely net the fish, bring it into my boat, remove hooks and take a quick picture before release. Probably wouldn't measure it unless it was possibly 120cm or better.

I don't have an issue with someone taking a picture of a Mary river cod if one is accidentally caught on a lure then released. Sticking one in an esky for dinner is what we should be concerned about I say. And I have a concern about bait fishing in water where protected fish are.

If we were really concerned we would be calling for total closures like what is done for the Bloomfield cod (night fish) in NQ. We as seem to want our cake and eat it too.

Thanks
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: aussiebasser on January 10, 2013, 11:05:29 AM
I think some of our members are more pedantic than most Fisheries Officers.  I've never had an issue with an Inspector in all my years of fishing, and I've been checked in Victoria, New South Wales, Queensland and Tasmania.  I always treat the Inspector with respect, the same as a Police Officer.  He's out there doing his job to feed his family, the same as we do at work every day, if you treat him bad, he may look a bit harder for things you're doing wrong.  I would think that if the guy holding up the Barra that was released ended up in court for that, the Judge would have a very difficult time proving a violation of law.  Fisheries use of the word "take" and the Judges view of how a layperson views the word "take" could see a request for the wording of the law to be changed. 
In the mean time, please fish responsibly, if you do happen to hook a fish during the closed season, please release it back into the water as soon as possible.  If you must take a pic, take it quickly.  I would not suggest submitting a picture of an obviously dead fish to either your local newspaper or an internet site during the closed the season.
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: Jason L on January 10, 2013, 12:34:28 PM
What is a regulated fish??? What are you referring to??? Just so i can be clear.....BTW - no such beast as DPI...either Fisheries Queensland or more correctly Dept of Agriculture, Fisheries & Forestry

Sorry old school, DPI was the governing body it's now DAFF.
Regulated fish are species that are controlled in some way or other, whether it be size, season, etc...
http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/documents/Fisheries_RecreationalFishing/Rec-fishing-fresh-waters-A4.pdf (http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/documents/Fisheries_RecreationalFishing/Rec-fishing-fresh-waters-A4.pdf)
Click on the link for the list of regulated freshwater fish in Qld.

Cheers
Jason
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: fishfolk on January 10, 2013, 01:40:39 PM
Jason

i know what a regulated fish is...

I cannot make the link on what you want to reference the regulated fish to?????
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: fishfolk on January 10, 2013, 02:08:38 PM
Can I just point out section 12 of the Fisheries Act and you can make up your own minds as to how you wish to approach the issue

12 When Act does not apply
This Act does not apply to—
(a) the unintentional taking of regulated fish or marine plants if the fish or plants are not intentionally or recklessly injured or damaged and are immediately put back; or
(b) the unintentional possession of regulated fish or marine plants by a person if the fish or plants are not intentionally or recklessly injured or damaged and the person can not, because of circumstances beyond the person’s control, put the fish or plants back immediately they come into the person’s possession; or
(c) the use of a hand net to lift from water fish taken by other fishing apparatus; or
(d) the use of a gaff to secure fish taken by other fishing apparatus.

I wonder if the Magistrate would understand the excuse in respect to s.12(b)..."I couldn't put the fish back imediately because I had a camera in my hand!!!"

BTW....... the responsible agent of the Act is the Chief Executive of Fisheries (section 20 Fish Act 1994) not the Department, not the Minister, Not the Premier or parliament, not even the Fishos.
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: rayke1938 on January 10, 2013, 02:31:20 PM
Ohhhhhhh.....................Hmmmmmmmmmmm........You guys are thinking about this way toooooooo much.
I also plead guilty took a photo of a 4 inch bass at hinze this morning even though i use crushed barbs and could have released it in the water as I normally do.
Will have to rethink all my actions.
 Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: Jason L on January 10, 2013, 04:36:58 PM
Can I just point out section 12 of the Fisheries Act and you can make up your own minds as to how you wish to approach the issue

12 When Act does not apply
This Act does not apply to—
(a) the unintentional taking of regulated fish or marine plants if the fish or plants are not intentionally or recklessly injured or damaged and are immediately put back; or
(b) the unintentional possession of regulated fish or marine plants by a person if the fish or plants are not intentionally or recklessly injured or damaged and the person can not, because of circumstances beyond the person’s control, put the fish or plants back immediately they come into the person’s possession; or
(c) the use of a hand net to lift from water fish taken by other fishing apparatus; or
(d) the use of a gaff to secure fish taken by other fishing apparatus.

I wonder if the Magistrate would understand the excuse in respect to s.12(b)..."I couldn't put the fish back imediately because I had a camera in my hand!!!"

BTW....... the responsible agent of the Act is the Chief Executive of Fisheries (section 20 Fish Act 1994) not the Department, not the Minister, Not the Premier or parliament, not even the Fishos.

Thanks Shaun, that has been the best response to this topic, and I have definately learnt something. :youbeauty
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: Bracey on January 10, 2013, 06:12:27 PM
In June 2013 the state Govt. are beginning a major overhaul of their freshwater rules and regs. This information stems from my ongoing fiasco to have Ewen Maddock Dam exempt from the Bass closed season.

It will be open for public consulation and I hope like buggery the govt. get it right after the that consultation. If you want to put your two bob in, it is then you MUST stick your bloody hands up, raise hell, write letters and make yourself heard as the saying goes.....Strength in numbers! We'll only get one chance at this probably for another decade. It could be 2015 before we see any change after this consultation.

I have been blown off too many times trying to amend parts of the legistration that is simply a no brainer. It is the bureaucratic red tape that is most hardest to break.

I'll most definitly keep you posted.

Cheers Dave
Title: Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
Post by: elops on July 29, 2014, 11:54:11 AM
A bit late and 5 pages on the answer to my question, it would seem not.