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General Category => Weather and Water Updates => Topic started by: dougout on December 15, 2010, 09:26:55 AM

Title: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: dougout on December 15, 2010, 09:26:55 AM
received these photos this morning via e-mail, supposedly taken yesterday at the Awoonga spill-way.
sorry I'm not able to vouch for their authenticity, I've received them 3rd hand and have never seen the wall from that angle.
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Bert on December 15, 2010, 09:40:55 AM
Nah... It's salmon and where are the bears?
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: aussiebasser on December 15, 2010, 12:01:16 PM
Sure looks like those damn pesky river fish are swimming up the wall to get to the promised land.
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: takrat on December 16, 2010, 01:44:11 PM
I'm told there were vast numbers of big chicks going over. That means that the ones who survive the drop will ramp up the Gladstone wild fishery. Restocking by default.
JD
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: harro on December 16, 2010, 02:31:31 PM
There's still more people in Gladstone than  new arrival
barra in surrounding water.
Just back from a 10 min watch (2pm Thurs 16th) and didn't sight a fish.
JM put it in perfect perspective when we spoke this morning.
Quote "If you didn't know some fish had gone over, it'd be business as usual"
How true.
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: BrisBassMan on December 16, 2010, 02:51:54 PM
How many have been stocked since the beginning?  3 Mil or something like that.  Don't think thee is anything to worry about. ;)
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Earl on December 16, 2010, 08:20:13 PM
Some great photos courteously of GAWB on Monday

Some great photos from GAWB
(http://www.sweetwaterfishing.com.au/Forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1504.0;attach=2968;image)

(http://www.sweetwaterfishing.com.au/Forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1504.0;attach=2972;image)

(http://www.sweetwaterfishing.com.au/Forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1504.0;attach=2970;image)


Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Johnny Mitchell on December 16, 2010, 11:04:56 PM
Yea, business as usual. Caught today, Awoonga, 118cm, by German angler, Johann Lindhorst.
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Brad H on December 17, 2010, 06:37:35 AM
WOW!!! in that 2nd last GAWB pic I can see at least 30 big fish there, are they schooling and staging near the spillway lip somewhere ??? I always thought once they got mega sized that they were more solitary, must be some sort of inherent desire to meet up and do some extreme water sliding  ;D

Brad
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Toddy on December 17, 2010, 07:28:22 AM
WOW!!! in that 2nd last GAWB pic I can see at least 30 big fish there, are they schooling and staging near the spillway lip somewhere ??? I always thought once they got mega sized that they were more solitary, must be some sort of inherent desire to meet up and do some extreme water sliding  ;D

Brad


Hahahah :) :)
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Sweetwater on December 17, 2010, 08:42:34 AM
By the look of that spillway I'm surprizes local daredevils haven't tried running it on tubes. It looks doable but I'm sure its kamikaze material....

Hopefully the majority of the fish that go over aren't minced or turn into bull shark poop. Boyne/Tannum locals deserve a crack at the Turkey Shoot phenomenon.... the question is, if there ends up some decent numbers downstream, will the closed season stop em? I'm thinking it probably wont in some cases.

Should B&FP turn a blind eye in this situation? What do you think?

Cheers,

fitz..
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: BrisBassMan on December 17, 2010, 10:05:41 AM
Isn't there some ruling that you can fish a certain distance down from the dam wall and it not be considered part of the wild fishery and therefore not subject to the closed season.  I thought there was similar for bass downstream of NPD for example.

JM: a bit off topic but I see the wind is blowing from the left corner to the bottom left in the pic.  Was that one caught off a weed bank with the current flow running across it or directly into it.  What were the circumstances in that particular case if you don't mind me asking.

Cheers
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Sweetwater on December 17, 2010, 10:15:34 AM
Isn't there some ruling that you can fish a certain distance down from the dam wall and it not be considered part of the wild fishery and therefore not subject to the closed season.  I thought there was similar for bass downstream of NPD for example.
\

None that I've ever heard of. In fact many, but not all, dams and weirs have a No Fishing Zone either above, below or both imposed on them. The reason for the bottom side closures is that fish will often push upstream until they hit the barrier & school up. This is seen to give anglers an unfair advantage as the fish are vulnerable to be over exploited.

Cheers,

fitz..
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: elops on December 17, 2010, 10:33:13 AM
The B&F Patrol have handed out infringements locally for exeeding bag limits and in possession during closed season when fish were collected dead or dying after overflows. Should they turn a blind eye to this ? hard to determine how such fish were obtained unless they actually saw them collect them. The regs. state in possession.
Could be used as an excuse like the old "I was targeting Yella's" chestnut trotted out by many who target Bass in these areas in closed season.
cheers,
Steve.
 
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: BrisBassMan on December 17, 2010, 10:41:33 AM
Yeah I thought that wasn't right.  I had only heard that so I always put it in the "I'm not gonna risk $100 fine" basket.  Incidentally I have never seen a fisheries person on the water until a recent trip up to Borumba.  I don't get out anywhere near as much as I would like but had never seen them.  Good to know they are getting the job done though.

Cheers
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: k.hutchby on December 17, 2010, 03:17:10 PM
the closure for below the dam wall also has and attribute to safety, as trigger releases can happen at any given time.  i have been watching the fish that have been going over for the last week, and there is minimum mincing.  several reports of mass fish kills, but again i must be looking in the wrong river system.  i met with the water commisioner, local politicians and the gawb ceo today and we are all impressed with the transition of the fish from the dam to the river system.  schools of fish are located at the spillway bridge  feeding, so there must not be too much wrong with them.   thanks to all on this site for not causing too much contreversy over the situation, it has been appreciated.  im too busy at the moment with current stocks in the hatchery and fish going over government papers to deal with shyty rumours and stories.  also thanks to the people observing the events surrounding the fishery.

thanks all.

cheers
kurt 
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Johnny Mitchell on December 17, 2010, 11:03:37 PM
Should B&FP turn a blind eye in this situation? What do you think?
No. I don't think they should.
The reason of the closure needs to be respected as ol' wild barra is the one at risk. If it became a free-for-all, it'd be like losing all 'touch' with the fragility of the real barra down the river and possibly a lack of appreciation for nature's own.
Without proof, I also think those new slippery dip fish should not be down the river- they are not supposed to be there, and an imbalance will occur. If I had a magic wand, I'd remove them. If authorities reckon its ok, they'd of stocked 100,000 metre fish into the river ages ago- but they didn't, because it's not the right chess move in my opinion, and I reckon they know it.

Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: tednted on December 18, 2010, 10:55:25 AM
Johnny ,
I reckon you ,Kurt & a few locals should get down there with a big net & put them buggers back in ;D ;D
We have our own probs down here now with all the flooding causing black water right around our district with native fish turnin their toes up in the thousands & it's real gutwrencher to see 1.3 mtr murray cod rotting on top of the water  :( :( even the murray crays are climbing out of the river to get away from it !!!
cheers AL
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Johnny Mitchell on December 18, 2010, 11:36:07 AM
Ted, OUCH!
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Awoonga on December 19, 2010, 02:31:39 PM
Would this work at the spillway at Awoonga ....... Downstream migrating fish are instinctively attracted toward increasing water velocities, called attraction flows. The Smith-Root Downstream Guidance and Repelling systems are designed to guide downstream migrating fish away from dangerous attraction flows. Our design uses electrical pulses that do not tetanize fish or in any way reduce their swimming ability. Tetanized fish would be swept further into the electrified zone by water flow. To avoid the tetanizing effect, very short DC pulses are used which provide a sensation much like pins and needles. Repelled fish are guided towards an alternate waterway, with an attraction flow, or repelled toward open water, in the case of resident fish in a lake or reservoir.
 
                                   
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: k.hutchby on December 19, 2010, 06:19:28 PM
trev
i have been struggling to find solutions to the issue that can be justified in some way to gawb, but due to the limited amount of fish that have exited the dam, this justification gets harder by the minute.  awoonga has been lucky in the fact that it has never gone over since the heavy stocking levels, so in one way i think we should be greatfull, and again, we could be like tinaroo and mackays dams where they watch the barra go splat on a regular basis.  i am with everypone else on this topic, i hate seeing my product going over the wall, in particular the jacks, but i have done everything in my own power to ease the pain a little, as the barra fly over.  still remember, gawb, in particular myself are very inexperienced in forecasting and dealing with the fish going over the spillway event, and i would say after march (and there will be many more events prior to then) i will have a more strategic contigency plan in place.  i have extended my stocking permit for awoonga for barra in the retaliation of loosing fish, and it will be filled by the start of jan 2011. 

again, the expense of the system, long term feasability, and no previous application on a barra impoundment, makes further difficulty in its justification, as well for myself.  remember the dam receives more barra per annum than any other dam in australia, and the resource is renewable.  i will stand by the fact that there has been limited if any impact on the population in awoonga, most of these fish that have gone over would be fish in the nearby vacinity of the dam wall.  you know as good as i do, that the barra from futter creek have not moved to the dam wall for relocation purposes (and trust me i have had some real knobs tell me different in the last week).   

trev, beleive me i am stuck in a hard place and banging my head on the floor thinking of solutions whilst also running a hatchery, my time is limited and priorities must be set, no mass mortalities in the awoonga itself, more concentrating on the injection of fingerlings prior to christmass.  during this overflow event, awoongas visitation levels have risen from 1200 per week to 90,000, all due to the fish over the wall.   

cheers
kurt
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Sweetwater on December 19, 2010, 08:47:52 PM
during this overflow event, awoongas visitation levels have risen from 1200 per week to 90,000, all due to the fish over the wall.   

cheers
kurt


Imagine if each visitor dropped a coin in a donation tin for the hatchery...

Was thinking the same the other week when Wivenhoe had folks lined up for 2 hours to get in to see the water being released.

Cheers,

fitz..
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: k.hutchby on December 19, 2010, 08:54:17 PM
yeah fitzy,
would be nice as you could imagine..... :o :o :o 8)  look you guys would be more experienced than me at it, maybe you guys can have some contribution to it that may be relevant to awoonga.....

cheers
kurt
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Sweetwater on December 19, 2010, 09:00:29 PM
yeah fitzy,
would be nice as you could imagine..... :o :o :o 8)  look you guys would be more experienced than me at it, maybe you guys can have some contribution to it that may be relevant to awoonga.....

cheers
kurt
G'Day Kurt,

In what way mate??

fitz..
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: k.hutchby on December 20, 2010, 05:41:18 AM
fitzy,
well i have only experienced 1 week of fish going over the spillway, where you are involved with several impoundments that have done this in 2010, what management approaches did you put in place re fish going over and did you experience and mortalities at the receiving end of the everflow?  do you have any further management contingencies for future events?  (i know that this is going to become sticky with other members teabagging their 2 bobs worth in by may be a good discussion point to get veiws on the events an future approaches that other restocking groups on this site can take advantage of).

cheers
kurt
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Binder on December 20, 2010, 06:17:56 AM
Kurt, our strategy -  we just put more fish in, the local salt water fisho's get a nice bonus for a season or two, and being as our stockings are mostly bass, lots of the local fresh water streams will probably see bass for the first time in a lot of years.

We also watch the immediate down stream areas for the white bucket brigade and keep fisheries informed.

You've previously mentioned your getting your brood stock from the local area, so I dont see a problem with fish going over the wall. Be a big pick me up for the local systems for years to come. Particularly if the big girls  are healthy enough after their ride to still breed this season!
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Awoonga on December 20, 2010, 08:23:01 AM
First off l had a email sent to me yesterday from a person that spent 8 hours at the spillway. They asked if l would post there results on the forum sites to make people aware of how many fish are going over the wall.My reply was sorry because what happened on one day might not happen on another day..ie fish going over the spillway. What they where trying to do was guess the number of fish that Awoonga has lost in a week...Last week is gone, forget about last week its the future weeks that concern me a bit. If Awoonga continues to overflow for say the next month or two months what then ? Lets look at some facts. Barra grow fast not like bass.. We do have a educated fishery,  No dumb fish in Awoonga  So we lose 20% of our stock and Kurt replaces them with new stock. Awoonga could return to its glory days. But what about the now time ? There are quite a few people that derive a income directly from the lake. As Kurt said the rumor mill is alive and well and bad news travels fast .l have had several phone calls telling me that Awoonga as a fishery is doomed "Yea right " There is nothing we can do to prevent or stop those fish from going over the spillway this time but l am sure we could inform the community at large that Awoonga is still a viable fishery
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Franke on December 20, 2010, 09:10:18 AM
I read that awoonga has been stocked with over 3 million fish and this is the first time it has ever gone over the spillway. What kind of a w@nker would say that awoonga is doomed? I fish borumba quite a bit and its where my sips money ends up. Its been running out for the last 2 years and hasnt been stocked with anywhere near the amount of fish that awoonga has, but fishing is still awesome. If anything seeing some of those big girls go over the wall is a good thing, i mean how smart do u think they might be getting. How many times would you eat a lure?  :youbeauty
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: aussiebasser on December 20, 2010, 10:22:02 AM
With the number of times Somerset and Wivenhoe have overflowed in the years since stocking began, I think it can be seen that this phenomena does not doom the fishery.  We have released close to half a million Bass into these two lakes in the last week.  They will take a couple of years to get to legal size and then maybe another 10 to 15 years to get to "trophy" size.  Borumba has overflowed regularly, as Franke said, and it has not been ruined as a fishery.  The doom sayers are coming out of the woodwork, as they always do, when the dams overflow.  There is nobody to blame for this, it is an event that has happened for many years in the older dams.  In reality, Barra stocking is in it's infancy.  The major southern dams, not having overflowed since the stocking began.  If weather patterns return to their historic normality, we will see overflow events on a much more regular timetable, and then we won't need a crystal ball to see if there is an adverse effect on the renewable population.  I can't imagine that we'll have to be careful driving up the dam, trying to avoid the fish queued up to take the leap into the river.  I'm sure Kurt and GAWB will get some valuable information from this event, but expecting any answers quickly would be a bit unreasonable.  In the meantime, all we can do is continue to enjoy the fishery they have created, because there are still plenty of fish to be caught.
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: dougout on December 20, 2010, 12:25:07 PM
In the meantime, all we can do is continue to enjoy the fishery they have created, because there are still plenty of fish to be caught.

Awoonga is still a viable fishery

Here-Here;
what they said. :thumb
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: obZen on December 20, 2010, 12:49:57 PM
we could be like tinaroo and mackays dams where they watch the barra go splat on a regular basis. 

In-correct. Well, for the last 7 or 8 years anyway.

As bad a bunch as they are, Tableland Fish Stocking Society erect a net (yay wide, and yay big... Sydney Harbour size) when Tinaroo is in spill mode. When not in use, the net is housed in a shipping container, which is a permanent donga for TFSS near the Tinaroo Resort foreshore. The net is strung up not across the dam wall, but from the peninsula of Barrabadeen across to where the shipping container is based - maybe some 250m infront of the wall. Those fish 'stuck' between the net & the wall are in the red zone where they may swim over if they wish, though friends that raft/kayak the Barron River will only see a floater ever blue moon. It's a rare thing, but in the old days it was a daily happening. It was a never disaster, far from it. More fish were holding in creek systems then in 100ft of water near the wall - and thats the case today.

Did I mention that after cyclone Larry, many Tinaroo anglers watched with excitement as schools of large Jacks flirted with the spilling water on the wall? Photo's were taken, but not distributed... thank god. The net was erected 2 days later. Not a fish lost.

Stanwell Corp. manage Koombooloomba Dam & Kareeya power projects based at the head of the Tully River, one of the wettest places in the world. In years gone by when the Dam spills (annual event after Feb to around April) Stanwell have implemented a large Rubber 'top' across the wall, almost like a great big long tyre tube. A net is apparently fixed to the base and is strung infront of the flowing water to back fish up. The dis-charge from this dam when full, and even half full, is massive - accomodating for Tully Rafters. Again, after cyclone Larry, the sheer volume of water that was cued up to go over the dam wall near the ramp was beyond belief - there was indeed some pull of the boat towards the wall as you drove past - hence why it is closed to recreational users when it is spilling, and is below 20%.

In the last fortnight I've had 3 people from (Cairns, 2 x Mackay-ites) call me about the net, all have been fowarded to the relevant people within TFSS. Hopefully some information swapping can be shared to other groups & water boards. Sure is a real pickle of a situation, remembering that water (and to some extent, Barra) are a precious commodity - especially in the Gladstone region.

Theo
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Sweetwater on December 20, 2010, 01:14:53 PM
fitzy,
well i have only experienced 1 week of fish going over the spillway, where you are involved with several impoundments that have done this in 2010, what management approaches did you put in place re fish going over and did you experience and mortalities at the receiving end of the everflow?  do you have any further management contingencies for future events?  (i know that this is going to become sticky with other members teabagging their 2 bobs worth in by may be a good discussion point to get veiws on the events an future approaches that other restocking groups on this site can take advantage of).

cheers
kurt

G'Day Kurt,

My expoeriences are with several species, but not barra, but some similarities can be drawn. Yep, fish go over or through a wall in flood events. Even when timed with spwaning runs only a fraction of the catadromous fish seem to go, while others seem to push further up into the lake. Example: We've had several overflow events in the Brisbane Valley Lakes over the past few months, there is some BIG bass getting caught way way way up the Brisbane & Stanley rivers right now. (I might get shot for spilling the beans of that...)

As we stock each & every year, I don't see it as an issue if some fish go over. I think Awoonga's spillway is far kinder for fish that our lakes here. Yes we get some mortality immediately & in days /weeks to follow, that's the way it goes as there's not alot that can be done.
Probably of the most concern in our area is the number of lungfish that get killed. We all probably saw some dead lungies from below North Pine Dam (Lake Samsonvale) a while back. This was publicised quite widely. Nobody saw the dead lungies from below Somerset & Wivenhoe Dam walls however, this was kept pretty quiet, the fish buried.

IMHO the dams primary reason is for water storage / flood mitigation. The recreational fishery that is created in the lake environment is of little concern (in the big scheme of things) in the overal operation & management of the water grid & fair enough too.

I actually see overflow events as an opportunity. When dams are built, flows are regulated & the natural cycles are interupted. A flood is a good thing, a delivery method for food, mineral, nutrients & can be a trigger for migration & spawning of fish; a renewal of the life cycle. Any fish that go over the wall add to the recreational fishery downstream, that can't be a bad thing. If theres an over abundance of predator fish downstream, it eventually sorts itself out. i.e. no food = some fish may be in poor condition; Darwins Theory comes into play...

We cannot dictate how floodwater released are conducted from dams & were in no position to even ask for barriers etc to be put into place. We get floods & we get droughts, that's the way it goes. IMHO we just get on with the job at hand, & that is to create & maintain recreatational fisheries in the waterways under our permit.

We can however change the way we stock fish, the species breakdown for sure, sizes & timing (to a degree), where in a lake we release fish, etc etc etc We can also not stock for a season preferring to carry some funds over to the following year as is commonly done in drought situations. We can also release excess funds from investments as we've just done to inject higher numbers to get a fisheries numbers back up after a flood event.

So, my advice would be to not stress about it. Its mostly out of your control. A few fish going over the wall can't really hurt. AND the flood event is justification for your work to continue at the hatchery as you've got fish to replace now. Give yourself a payrise mate.  :thumb

Id rather have a dam in flood than one in drought with the prospect of losing fish the bad way.  :thumbsup

Cheers,

fitzy..
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: k.hutchby on December 20, 2010, 01:35:47 PM
exactly fitzy, agree on all of the above.

cheers
kurt
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: drjfly on December 20, 2010, 03:21:43 PM
Hi All

Those of you who know me will know I work for Fisheries Queensland (put down your weapons  :) ). My primary role is fish passage (design and construction) and we are currently studying downstream fish passage over dam walls so this thread is of particular interest to us. Kurt (GAWB) is assisting us with information and some pics (thanks Kurt) but the more the better. We are particularly interested in any close up pics of damaged fish and pics (or even better video) of fish going over the spillway. If you can help me out send me a personal message.

Kind regards
Darren
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Sweetwater on December 20, 2010, 05:05:18 PM
Hi All

Those of you who know me will know I work for Fisheries Queensland (put down your weapons  :) ). My primary role is fish passage (design and construction) and we are currently studying downstream fish passage over dam walls so this thread is of particular interest to us. Kurt (GAWB) is assisting us with information and some pics (thanks Kurt) but the more the better. We are particularly interested in any close up pics of damaged fish and pics (or even better video) of fish going over the spillway. If you can help me out send me a personal message.

Kind regards
Darren

G'Day Darren,

Welcome back.  :thumbsup

Are you asking about Awoonga in particular or any dam / weir / barrier?

Cheers,

fitz..
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: drjfly on December 20, 2010, 06:26:32 PM
G'Day Darren,

Welcome back.  :thumbsup

Are you asking about Awoonga in particular or any dam / weir / barrier?

Cheers,

fitz..

Anything Fitzy but if it is pics of damaged fish we need to know what they went over and when. Really interested in video of fish actually going over spillways.

Regards
Darren
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: k.hutchby on December 20, 2010, 06:51:33 PM
a full documentary on the life cycle of the awoonga barra will be released early 2011 that i have been working on recently.  this will include from spawning, hatching, stocking, fishing and of course the finalle barra taking the plunge.  worked pretty hard on it and has been professionally produced by a professional cinematographer (not me by the way).  never been done before and hopefully like the fishery set some standards.

to all reading this post, there has been rumours re: 1000's of dead barra in awoonga and below the wall.  these hold as much integrity as the people who spread them.  i responded again (mind you in the mean time gearing 80,000 fish for mondy tomorrow), to count 451 barra.  darren can also support me on this one, this is now an epa job.  just everyone relax on this one, no net barrier like tinaroo will be errected, nor will any other deterant system be put in place (depends how many barra i sell this year, it may be in next year), but as i have told everyone, be greatfull of what we have out there, the fishery is not doomed in any way, and as trev said before, the fishery resource is healthy as always.  any reports of dead fish in the future within the confines of awoonga please call me or gawb head office.  the dam will continue to over flow throughout the cq wet season, and the reality of fish going over will continue, and people should take the good with bad over this period.  fingerlings will be stocked continually over this period, and business willl be as usual over this period.  remember, i am working my crack off over this issue plus allocate fingerlings to other impoundments, just a little busy at the moment.

kind regards
kurt 
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: deefa66 on December 20, 2010, 09:11:49 PM
Kurt, firstly thanks for all your hard work!  Secondly thanks for taking the time to keep us informed on what is REALLY going on up at Awoonga. Although we only get up there a couple of times a year, have  been following here and another forum for updates on outcome of overflow.It,s good to get first hand info, 451 is a lot better than the 1000's that has been quoted?????

Thanks again
Deefa
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: k.hutchby on December 20, 2010, 09:38:52 PM
again deefa, the people who start these rumours and blow figures out of proportion have as much credit as the rumours.  take it from first hand i have been up there in the last 12 hours and counted these stinkers, but again what do you do.  thanks to all again, in particular fitzy and the moderators.

kind regards
kurt
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: tednted on December 21, 2010, 06:57:20 AM
Great thread this one guys  8)
It's good to a member of such an informative & non bullshit site . For the few of us guys from the southern states ,I cant stress how great it is to have Kurt a member of this site & giving up his valuable time sorting out facts from fiction .  No matter how many Barra go over the wall , I know I'll be making the trek up again next year as that dam lake is now in my blood  :) .
Once again good onya Kurt & keep up the great work ya do  :youbeauty
cheers AL
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Binder on December 21, 2010, 07:19:21 AM
I do find it somewhat amusing that people are worried the fish going over the wall will affect the stocked fishery.

I have a few different concerns to that.

1. With the ever growing trend to catch and release, it might move on some of those biguns that have become lure shy, getting them out of the way !

2. I'm much more concerned with big rises in water levels, not because of oxygen problems, but because of the loss of the lilies and weed beds I love to cast at. A rise in a dam of more than 2 or 3 metres can mean a similar number of years before the weed beds and lilies recover!

3. Those same big rises in water levels means lots of nutrients, lots of flooded grass and shrubs etc,  hence lots of live bait, makes luring tough. Big fat fish that start feeding at 4:30am, and are full by 4:35am makes lure presentation a frustrating experience!

4. You can always go fishing downstream!

With my locals going over regularly for the last 2 or so years, I'm still seeing lots of fish on the sounder, live bait is the only regular way to catch them, getting them interested in lures is very hard. I'm also not really keen on fishing schools, I like to hunt them out around the weed beds and snags -  the Bass seem to have stayed schooled up right through the summers last couple of seasons. Got my first bass in NPD in the lilies for 2 years last weekend, then the rain started again!
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: A Marshall on December 21, 2010, 08:05:33 AM
Thanks for all the up to date no BS info Kurt :youbeauty
I'll be fishing the dam early in the new year, about the 7th & 8th, would be great to check out your operation if you have time.
Have a Merry Christmas.

Cheers Andrew
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: BrisBassMan on December 21, 2010, 10:55:51 AM
1. With the ever growing trend to catch and release, it might move on some of those biguns that have become lure shy, getting them out of the way !
I have heard that up in Tinaroo when they have the Barra Bash they cull off all the fish caught in the tournament.  Is this true and is it a good way to promote turn-over in the lake or is it a not so good thing to do?

3. Those same big rises in water levels means lots of nutrients, lots of flooded grass and shrubs etc,  hence lots of live bait, makes luring tough. Big fat fish that start feeding at 4:30am, and are full by 4:35am makes lure presentation a frustrating experience!
I would have thought tey would all be feeding at different times of the day and so therefore you just need to be around the right spot in the right time with the best conditions.......  but I am a  noob so.......... ;)

4. You can always go fishing downstream!
Since the water levels went up in NPD I have really only been in there 2 or 3 times.  Unless bait is employed(Freshwater shrimp) it seems thing are tough going.  This is what I have been doing most over the last year.  The fish are there but just don't want a bar of the many offerings employed to fool them.


Judging on what I have seen after the egress of water from NPD, there will most likely be a heap of white bucket brigades getting into the action.  Maybe with the usual amount of fish that go over the spillway in this type of event it will be a turkey shoot down there as they get more and more desperate as the food source disappears. Good for the Rec Fishers not so much maybe for the river system at least for a time anyway.


Cheers Geoff

Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: obZen on December 21, 2010, 02:01:05 PM
a full documentary on the life cycle of the awoonga barra will be released early 2011 that i have been working on recently.  this will include from spawning, hatching, stocking, fishing and of course the finalle barra taking the plunge.  worked pretty hard on it and has been professionally produced by a professional cinematographer (not me by the way).  never been done before and hopefully like the fishery set some standards.

to all reading this post, there has been rumours re: 1000's of dead barra in awoonga and below the wall.  these hold as much integrity as the people who spread them.  i responded again (mind you in the mean time gearing 80,000 fish for mondy tomorrow), to count 451 barra.  darren can also support me on this one, this is now an epa job.  just everyone relax on this one, no net barrier like tinaroo will be errected, nor will any other deterant system be put in place (depends how many barra i sell this year, it may be in next year), but as i have told everyone, be greatfull of what we have out there, the fishery is not doomed in any way, and as trev said before, the fishery resource is healthy as always.  any reports of dead fish in the future within the confines of awoonga please call me or gawb head office.  the dam will continue to over flow throughout the cq wet season, and the reality of fish going over will continue, and people should take the good with bad over this period.  fingerlings will be stocked continually over this period, and business willl be as usual over this period.  remember, i am working my crack off over this issue plus allocate fingerlings to other impoundments, just a little busy at the moment.

kind regards
kurt

Very well said Kurt. There's nothing you can do this time around. Chances are with the dam now full, and depending on next years dis-charge/evaporation from the dam, it may well be spilling again this time next year. It took a long time for a net to be put in place up here for when the rains occured, you'd be a man of great worth if you could get one up even next year. But as you say, anglers have got to be grateful for what they have. The dam & it's inhabitants will always be there.

Bris-Bass-man - to keep things short & sweet and not butt into a good thread, but yes such a Tournament like the Barra Bash exists. A similar event is also run at Awoonga, a Lions Fishing Day (or perhaps this is now a C&R?). The cull 'tournament' was put in place up here to drag the big fish out of the Lake, maybe 80 to 100 big fish over a full weekend - a sad and sorry sight for those that know how hard people & the fish worked to be in there. The event was always run in fear of the bigger fish predating on the smaller 50mm fingerlings that were released into the lake, but since 2002/2003 the Stocking Group has moved to now stock 300mm fingerlings, but in smaller quantities of course. It's been an overwhelming success, and has put Tinaroo right back on the map. The Barra Bash event is indeed very poor & reflects badly on the Tablelands community, but even worse it's the mindset that develops in anglers heads that every single big fish that is ever caught should be killed.

Anyway, enough about that. Thats a thread in it's own.

Spent a good hour or so trying to chase up some photo's of the fish barrier they have at Koombooloomba as mentioned in my previous post. Sorry about the size of the photo's, they are straight off the Stanwell Corp. website. For those that want the files in the full size you can go to the website, look up Image Library and download them for a fee (crazy, but anyway). As you can see, the wall itself is not the size of a Burdekin Dam wall or Tinaroo (both are about 60/70m deep, and about the same wide) but the system they have in place is one of a kind for a Dam that spills every single year.

Theo
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: SeekingBarradise on December 21, 2010, 08:44:09 PM
Hi guys, could staff have worked out the amount of water flowing in so they can open the gates
to make sure the correct amount of water is being let out, without using a spillway.  Could this have been done at Awoonga since say March?  E.g  Kept below 90% with more rain forecast to fall e.g. like now.

If it wasn't possible that's cool. 

With millions of dollars worth of stocked fish and a million dollar industry where caravan parks,
guides and service stations up and down the Bruce Highway are all linked together making
a crust from impoundment barra i reckon that a lot of long term thought should go into water levels.

Are locals taxed to stock Awoonga with Barra?

If so i'm sure they wouldn't want a few thousand to travel over the dam wall, especially if
it's the fish of a lifetime e.g. 100cm or 120cm plus Barra.  Remember thousands of anglers travel thousands of km's holding onto the dream of catching a big barra.  They also spend thousands of dollars in the local community.

Are there future plans in place to prevent losing stocked fish?
If so does anyone know what the preventative plans are?

This is a thought provoking thread, well done to everyone who's shared their thoughts.

Merry Xmas & Happy New Year.
Lyndon.


Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: k.hutchby on December 22, 2010, 05:32:09 AM
hi lyndon
your question are not unreasonable, but i will make a start on the reply....

first of all the discharge of water to lower dam levels to prevent the dam would be a little too hard to predict and a major gamble.  the valves at full crack release 12,000 megalitres per 24 hours, but the inflow at its peak was 72,000.  the valving just would not keep up with the inflow.  the next 4-5 five days is going to be interesting with the amount of flow.  i met with derm yesterday and they beleive that the dam spillway wont get over 1.1m, but it think this week will test her out.  i think that the key point that everyone has to realise on this one is that the water is core business and the fishery is a gift from gawb (they legally dont have to stock the dam) and while ever it is under private stocking control, the numbers will remain large going in, and it will keep its own hatchery. 

locals are not taxed as of yet under the QCA new reveiw.  but soon...... maybe.

procurement plans are in the process of being developed and working on preventative measures. 

just got back from stocking some barra at monduran and they too are loosing some fish but there is still a crapload more water to enter the dam in the next day or so.  both dams loo good out there at the moment.

hope this helps lyndon, take care

kh
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Binder on December 22, 2010, 06:05:48 AM
Releasing water from dams is a bit of an art form.
Depending on the dam, the down stream conditions and topography and the layering in the dam itself. Also the flood storage capacity of the dam allows them different options. IE Somerset and Wivanhoe they can stage the releases, NPD has no flood storage, when its gotta go its gotta go!

For all dams big Flood events just happen, no control, no ability to control!

But small releases are generally planned carefully to minimise environmental issues, allow for best control of the water strata in the dam etc.

For example
NPD has changed its techniques to open cone valves where possible, they lose less fish that way - if they open a gate or two they ensure as they close the gates the cone valves are open, then slowly taper off the cone valves to ensure water levels drop reasonably slowly.

This is because there is basically no downstream pondage, a quick close off of water flow means lung fish stuck out of the water. A slow lowering of the water level and the fish (of all types) tend to move in to the pools and channels and not get stranded. Busy workers rescuing live fish looks much better on the news that shoveling dead endangered fish in to skips.

The temperature of the water released from dams can also be an issue. Water released from valves low down can be quite cold compared to river water temperatures and upset the downstream environment, I dont know much about that one. It has not been a problem here that I am aware of, they dont do environmental flows in my local dams. It is apparently a problem on the Murray at times, no doubrt it would affect other systems as well.

And of course if they are releasing water they dont want to upset the water quality if they can help it. Different strata at the same location in the dam can require significantly different amounts and types of treatment. They may be pretty keen not to do anything that mixes those strata on small releases.
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: mackdonalds on December 22, 2010, 09:35:30 AM
Some interesting reading..

http://d4801.mysite.westnethosting.com.au/conference_papers/09_qld/documents/PeterAllen.pdf

http://www.derm.qld.gov.au/water/regulation/pdf/guidelines/dam_safety/chapter_05.pdf
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Johnny Mitchell on December 22, 2010, 07:13:44 PM
Considering Awoonga has been spilling over for about ten days, between about 50-101cm over, from only small falls in the right area ( a week apart), I believe we are in for a flogging when it rains like cats and dogs in the coming future. It'll be interesting to see the back up of water in the Boyne Valley district along with a pumping dam wall, if and when Mother Nature pours. In the first few months of this year, the lake rose about 10 metres from the rains, and it rose about 17m about 8? yrs ago. Can we picture  the results from similar types of situations?
Depressions, monsoon troughs, cyclone events- "doo doo doo doo, doo doo doo doo!" That spooky music looms , close by! I don't think we've seen the beginning yet, and as Kurt aludes to- it's beyond any human's control to stop it. BOM tells a story that spells- BEWARE!
Johnny
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: k.hutchby on December 22, 2010, 07:37:48 PM
johnny
i spoke with the disaster management mob late this arvo and the gladstone region warning and heavy forecast has been downgraded with most of the action north of mackay.  still sweatin bullets though.  hopefully it eases enough so that we can get the first injection of barra into awoonga and the last load into monduran/lenthals.  still looks pretty average weather. 

cheers
kh
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Big_Ren on December 22, 2010, 08:26:37 PM
This is the latest from the State Disaster Coordination Group statewide teleconference today.

BOM has confirmed that a tropical low is expected to cross the coast between Cairns and Townsville on Saturday morning. The low will begin to impact upon the Queensland coastline with heavy rain from late Friday. All Queensland coastal areas can expect rain from late Friday, increasing to heavy falls across the weekend and easing to showers on Monday. Up to 400mm of rain is expected between Cardwell and Mackay. Falls of between 50mm and 100mm are expected in the south east and falls of between 100mm and 200mm are expected in many parts of an already saturated central Queensland.

BOM says if the rain is spread evenly over the period from late Friday to Monday morning, there is a chance the water may run off without causing major problems. If however, we get intense rain in short periods, we could experience major flooding. It is very much a wait and see situation.

All emergency response agencies are on high alert. Strong winds are now expected in coastal areas, with an outside chance of winds escalating to gale force. Sea swells are expected to be moderate. King tides are causing minor flood problems in some areas already.

This is obviously a report that impacts on coastal areas as well as dams and their catchment areas. Interesting reading though.

There will be another debrief tomorrow after another teleconference.

Cheers
Paul
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Johnny Mitchell on December 22, 2010, 08:43:50 PM
Thanks Kurt, Paul.
There will be eyes, ears and sixth senses on full alert in Q land this week. I hope santa makes it through.
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Big_Ren on December 22, 2010, 08:52:13 PM
No probs Johnny. I'll post an update after we get debriefed tomorrow. Although I'd bet leftie that the forecasting models will still be Wet Wet Wet. Santa might need a boat, not a sled. A sixth sense would come in handy for sure.
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: nagg on December 22, 2010, 11:15:27 PM
What am I doing at Awoonga   :walkplank   -   Oh well , got the tent set up without everything getting totally saturated.

Chris
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: drjfly on December 23, 2010, 09:16:42 AM
Here is a BOM tool that can be used as a predictor for this wet weather approaching QLD.


http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/charts/viewer/index.shtml?type=mslp-precip&tz=AEST&area=Au&model=G (http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/charts/viewer/index.shtml?type=mslp-precip&tz=AEST&area=Au&model=G)


Regards
Darren
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Big_Ren on December 23, 2010, 09:39:02 AM
Thanks Darren. That looks like it could be a very useful tool in the coming months.

Cheers
Paul
Title: Re: Barra going over the Awoonga wall yesterday
Post by: Big_Ren on December 23, 2010, 08:39:08 PM
Here is today's update (3.00pm Thursday) from the State Disaster Coordination Group: The low everyone is watching in the far north is now expected to cross the Queensland coast much further north – above Cairns.

Previously, it was thought the low would cross the coast between Cairns and Townsville. The low is expected to travel across Cape York and into the Gulf late Friday and Saturday. This means the heaviest rain will be experienced on the lower Cape and around Cairns. Areas south of Cairns down to about Bundaberg can expect about 200mm over Saturday and Sunday. The South East can expect heavy rain from about Sunday.

BOM said the situation remains serious and is about to issue a Severe Weather Warning. Their situational reports will be updated every six hours.

All emergency response agencies remain on alert, and are standing by.

The State Disaster Management Group will hold an extraordinary meeting tomorrow at 10am.

Cheers
Paul