Sweetwater Fishing Forums
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: harro on December 14, 2010, 01:47:41 AM
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This is more salt that sweetwater, but relevant just the same.
We pay a de fracto license in the form of self-funding via the SIP scheme.
Qld is overdue to follow the NSW lead and introduce a general fishing licence -
and use the funds to buy out inshore commercial netters and proceed with general inshore
netting closures.
IMO, anyway, now's a good time to raise the issue.
The results in NSW can't be ignored. Lake Macquarie and Lake Illawarra are two bodies surrounded by
massive population and industrial centres. They are fishing like never before now that the nets are gone.
How good would it be if nets were removed from Hervey Bay, The Gladstone region and the Fitzroy.
Sunfish should be making a noise instead of walking backwards.
Of course they'd be a hue and cry and all sort of clamour from the Fourex Creta - but truck 'em.
PS I'm going to have to give that little dude on the left a flycasting lesson...all that false casting.....one or two should be
enough for a normal length flyline.
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I'd pay a licence for salt if they used the loot for stocking or something similar. Not for buying out pro's etc. They can do that out of the Tax money they already have gouged me for! After all they sold the pro licence in the first place!
Call me old fashioned but I believe Govt exists to spend my tax money on worthwhile services and infrastructure, not to tax me then charge me commercial rates for the service or infrastructure my taxes have just paid for anyway!
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Sunfish should be making a noise instead of walking backwards.
Of course they'd be a hue and cry and all sort of clamour from the Fourex Creta - but truck 'em.
Harro - Sunfish has reviewed this over the last 12 months at some length - the general opinion from the "grass roots" anglers is that they don't trust the government to manage it along the same lines as NSW - and with good cause from past track records ::) There also appears to be some issues with the establishment of designated trust accounts - Oh & the governement is mostly broke ..........
There was a lengthy debate on the topic last year - over three months from memory which I will refrain from visiting again, where a number of polls where run on this topic across three Qld focused fishing forums - the actual final result was with the majority in-favour if implemented along the same model as NSW - go figure :P
Regards Scotto
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PS I'm going to have to give that little dude on the left a flycasting lesson...all that false casting.....one or two should be
enough for a normal length flyline.
I've figured it out for you Harro. He's casting left handed, and everybody knows cack handers cast cast as well as "right" handers.
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Duh........
Now I know why I switched to right.
Nothing to so with broken arms and legs in a head-on, mind you.
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I am inclined to agree with Harro on this one.I have a few ways of looking at it.
Firstly if the general population of anglers is licensed then there is a measurement on how many people actually fish within Queensland.With the green movement having as much tow as it does at the moment knowing the actual number of anglers may be very useful in so far as political parties are less willing to hang us rec fishers out to dry if they think there will be a political backlash.
Secondly as Harro said it gives a fund to draw from initally to buy out pros and then later to restock areas and possibly improve facilities that boaties and rec fishers use.Policing may also be included.
I know its an unpopular subject in some sectors but I see many positives and not many negatives that could come from licensing.
Just my opinion.
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If a government can raise revenue through bullshit speed camera operations - and the public cops - no pun - it in the arse,
they can lift their game and work this through. Or are pollies that dumb and incompuss.
The log jam is us. Between catch and release and killit and fillet we can't agree on what day it is.
Meantime anti-fishing forces pollute the political waters.
A money pool raised through licence revenue can, and has, been done. With great success.
I'm not holding breath though, the government will not do anything unless dragooned into acting.
The pros would hate to see a general licence and activly campaign against.
A licence quantifies rec angler numbers and makes them more pro-active stake holders in the resource.
It also makes governments think of a tangible voter bloc , not some procession of boat trailers around
the town hall.
It'd be a better world were we rid of those rag-tag, arse outa the pants inshore netters.
They'd break arms taking the money.
The departmental arse shiners do not have much alacrity for the concept. In publc-service-think fewer pros
means lesser jobs. Theirs.
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I'm all for it, buying out commercial licenses can only be good for fish stocks and recreational fishing. I grew up Victoria and had no problems whatsoever shelling out money when a general license was implemented knowing that at a minimum more funds were supposedly available to police our waterways. Pro buyback schemes were also introduced down there after the license was introduced to great benefit of some local fishing areas.
Shaun
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* not to upset any apple carts or to eat any of the apples- but guess who produced a good portion of the saltwater broodstock to help kick the Awoonga fishery off well over a decade ago. And guess who got outta bed at all hours and produced more males and female brood stock fish for the hatchery to keep on keeping on in the years to follow. Jacks, oh, yea, them too.
A commercial fisherman did that, mostly for free!
Just something to mull over.
Johnny Mitchell
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consumer driven industry. i could safely say that well over 90% of us guys are eating some form of seafood over the next fortnight, but where from???? ::) i know it contradicts my previous comment re: protection of our fisheries resource below impoundments, but i guess that is another matter in itself. i dont believe in sanctioned green zones, and i dont beleive in small estuary commercial activities (ie the boyne river). people are under the beleif that aquaculture is the saving grace for our seafood industry. i dont want to burst the bubble, but it wont. i can name and list many reasons and operations to support this but this forum will be bored with it after about 100 dot points. the marketing of the product is the major issue.
anyways, i catch all my own broodstock now in the habrour (by line only), and i suppose i should have the same reputation as the commercial guys. dunno i will sit on the fence for a while on this one.
cheers
kurt
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* not to upset any apple carts or to eat any of the apples- but guess who produced a good portion of the saltwater broodstock to help kick the Awoonga fishery off well over a decade ago. And guess who got outta bed at all hours and produced more males and female brood stock fish for the hatchery to keep on keeping on in the years to follow. Jacks, oh, yea, them too.
A commercial fisherman did that, mostly for free!
Just something to mull over.
Johnny Mitchell
If they were all Johnny Mitchells' it'd be a better world.
My beef is net techniques that take an entire bio-mass of spawning/migrating fish - bream/permit/whiting.
Lots of lines in the water fragment schools and not have the same impact on natural proporgation.
At least barra get the respite of a closed season.
My motives are ultruistic - kids should have the same chance as us older generations. The social arguments are compelling.
Under current management regimes and fishing practices, it won't happen.
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Increasing human population and decreasing fish stocks inshore and offshore. What we had a short time ago is not there now because more people are eating more seafood. There is a trend there and it ain't a good one IMHO. I'm not qualified to offer great input here as my experience is limited when it comes to this area of science. What I hope for, is that someone or everyone can get together and figure it out because my kids aren't gonna live in a world that has the bounty and diversity that exists now.
Am I on the fence abit .... probably, only because of my lack of scientific knowledge, but I sure as hell wouldn't mind spending a bit of money if it means saving what precious little reserves we have left and help them grow.
my 2cents
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Having seen the benefits of the introduction of a general fishing licence in NSW ...... I'm all for it
Most of the NSW estuary systems have returned to being outstanding fisheries - Harro mentions Lake Mac & the Illawarra ....... throw on top of that Botany bay (sydney metro) which is now a fantastic fishery with the fast gaining reputation for the mulloway fishing - all on the back of commercial closures & stocking made possible via a licence . The same goes for up and down the NSW coastline
There is a lot to be gained from a well run scheme (like the SIP) & the pain is not that great.
Chris
PS ...... The licence will also attract considerable funds from interstate anglers
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Great topic Harro,I totally agree with a licience system and have done for a long time.
I've never said just kick the pro's out and have always said give them a good payout so they can retire from monies generated from the rec licience funds.
I believe there are 3 net liciences for the Mary river here in the Bay and a couple in the Burrum,give them a 1/2 mil or so each and the tourism generated from a barra fishery 3 hours from a major city would be far more benificial to the whole region financialy! either that or make them line fish the barra like rec anglers have too.
Then there's the flats fishery on a big slice of the Queensland coast for sight casting to Goldens,Permit,Giant Herring,Queenfish and many more that would bring tourists from all over the world.
Images like the ones below shold never happen again in my view,no ice and in the back of a ute is not a good way to treat fish especially a permit one of the most sought after species on this planet some would say the HOLY GRAIL to fly anglers.
Just my 2 bobs worth on it.
Paul
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Without some firm reasoning as to why & some guarantees where the fees collected will go, I'll be doing my absolute best to hamstring any attempts at a general fishing licence system in Qld.
If pro fishing is non-profitable, then that aint my fault, nor the fault of recreational mum n dad anglers. Why the heck should I pay out some guy because he's either hopeless or incompetent? Pigs @rse I will. Let me harken back to the good ole QFMA days where fishing licences were bought out in the gulf. Sounds great on the surface but all they did was divide that same quota among those pros remaining. The total catch stayed the same s0 there was no improvement to recreational fishing; our money payed for that. I tangent off to some other QFMA pearlers but we're not talking about dead dolphins here..... :-X
IT IS the charter of our fisheries management department to ensure any commercial fishery is managed in a sustainable manner. If any fish stocks are in decline as a result of fish caught under fishing licences / quotas issued, then heads should roll, but rec anglers should not need to pay through the nose for bad management.
If our waterways are managed correctly, there is no need for restocking in our rivers / reefs as fish will breed on their own & therefore no need for money to be spent. So where would the dosh go? To keep more arses polishing seats up in Tank St Brisbane. phhhhttt
Boat ramps were mentioned as a possible benefactor of licence fees. We already pay for this via boat registration fees in the form of the Private Pleasure Vessel Levy (PPV). Why pay for something twice? Now I clearly recall documents that promised 17% of PPV money would go to improving Sweetwater access / ramps etc. What a load of cr@p that was, and the gullible ones swallowed the hook when the bait was set.
So where will the moolah from a licence go?
Sorry folks, I'm anti fishing licence for a reason & I'm happy to hear arguments / persuasions to the contrary, but I'm going to be a nay sayer till the cows come home on this one.
In a society that is as highly regulated as any on this rock, I'm astounded that we have anyone asking for yet another tax, a tax on something we've been doing as a part of our existence since we stepped down from the trees and our tails fell off.
So what left for licence money to be spent on? Restocking our dams / lakes (that through their very construction ruin a perfectly good wild river) is the stand out left standing. We have the Stocked Impoundment Permit (SIP) scheme in Qld. It is the envy of many other states & countries. It works & is an acceptable user pays system to govt & recreeational anglers; it fair & transparent. I can gurantee that a whole of state fishing licence will see the SIP scheme abandoned. Why the hell would we want to ruin one of the best user pays systems going for little obvious gains to our fishery & throw our own hard earned out for the privelege..... Not this black duck, sorry.
Fitzy..
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Sounds great on the surface but all they did was divide that same quota among those pros remaining. The total catch stayed the same so there was no improvement to recreational fishing; our money payed for that.
Fitz,
True sentence. The total catch still remains hey. Buy outs won't work, as its not the full picture.
J
In other situations, the rec take is already greater than the commercial take, so the word balance isn't easy to pen.
The other issue is product demand. A demand will still remain if commercial pressure is reduced. There will be no prizes for guessing how that gap is filled.
What I believe is worth focus is spawn closures for all fish who's numbers are rocky. Commercial and rec closures. Both rec and commercial fishing takes place in many fisheries during spawn periods or in lead up to the events. If sustainability is the key, closures are important. If a rec angler wishes to have fisheries to themselves without commercial pressure, they're not fitting the shoes of futuristic smarts. Why don't we just close areas for good- that'll sustain a lot of fisheries......... but the rec angler won't be happy. Without pros, rec fishing might not be as honky dory as many expect it to be. Come fighting time, the commercial sector does a great deal to keep Australia fishing. There's plenty of anglers who want pros out, but I'll post a photo of the Christmas line up at Seafood outlets here in Gladstone. That's the double edge of the sword.
There is NO simple strategy to this topic.
Johnny Mitchell
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There is no doubt that the NSW model works ( just like the SIP scheme in Qld)
The wholesale buyout of commercial licences in the various estuary systems has been a great thing - particularly the recruitment of certain fish stocks and the flow on effect where little tackers can grow up without having to deal with nets strung or hauled left right and centre.
Botany Bay during the 90s was a tough fishery ......... Sitting at a Brighton Le Sands restaurant on the new moon during a summers night one could see why - the pretty coloured lights with a catastrophic end result - anywhere between 20 & 30 little prawn trawlers dragging their chains / nets from one end to the other - the bay was decimated.
The funds raised from the new licences went straight into buying out the Pro licences ........ the fishing improved within a few years & today 10 years later fishing segments are filmed within the system .
How can that be a bad thing ?
We should see the same thing happen up here with Systems like the Goldcoast / Moreton bay , Noosa , Burrum , Mary etc
To think that this type of thing isn't coming would be pretty naive ........
Chris
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As I see it the Queensland SIP system is a good one that applies only to stocked impoundment of which Quld has more of than any other state. The License system that operates in NSW works extremely well and apart from obvious things like pro buyouts, there have been numerous other benefits from the idea. The success of the system comes from the fact that there IS input from rec anglers, or at least their reps, as well as qualified people like Fisheries scientists etc. The problem in Queensland has been a devisive rec angle population that almost never gets together. I agree with Harro that parades of boat trailers don't cut it, and the license is a good way to quantify the numbers of anglers who are out there. The sticking point as I see it is that us rec anglers basically don't trust the Qld government to spend the money wisely. There MUST be an oversight to go with this as I believe a fishing license is money held in trust by the government to be used for the benefit of those who paid the money. Restocking non impounded fisheries should not be neccessary if all the other factors are favourable. Basically there is a great difference between impoundments that are subsidised by SIP and "wild" fisheries that should be self sustaining given the right balance. A properly managed license system will work. Good post Harro.
JD
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Well call me naive then (call me what ever you want), but I've got a mind & a voice & I will use the lot to stop, oppose or delay an all waters licence in Qld. Even if its only to stop the SIP from being screwed up. Now you can call me arrogant as well... But you'll need some better arguements to make me think otherwise.
I'm still absolutely & diabolically opposed to paying out pros with my money, when there's a fishery management system in place that can & should be managing it better, in a sustainable manner.
I'll play the silly game, give up on my beliefs & agree an all waters licence is inevitable. It still doesnt mean I cant go down fighting.
Riddle me this then Batman
So,,, once all the pros are payed out, where THEN will the licence fees collected go in 5 years or 10 years, 50 years?
Will recreational bag limits be raised since the world will once again be a garden of eden with pros a thing of the past?
Will size limits be reduced once the pros are extinct?
And at the end of it, where are all the people who want a feed of fish or prawn etc get them with pros being nothing but a memory?
To think everyone that wants to eat seafood is going to be able to go fishing, & then catch their own... now THAT'S naive.
A licence is forever; never to be undone.
I'm all for improving out fisheries, but I'm not keen to pay for someone elses mistakes, poor management & bad practices.
As always, I'm happy to be convinced otherwise, but I've not read or heard anything from here or the various bodies / groups / committees and so on that I work with to make me consider an all waters licence is anything other than another tax of possibly limited short term use when long term solutions are required.
Interesting discussions, thanks for the efforts.
Fitz..
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Imagine possibilities like this-
No pro fisherman- no fishery officers to protect rivers- (possible job extinction).
No pro fisherman- no experienced persons on the water 24/7 keeping tabs on anything fishy.
No pro fisherman- no quick reporting to customs of wrong doing- especially in remote coastal areas.
No pro fisherman - no prawns for the table or for your hook.
No pro fisherman- less studies on fisheries and management.
No pro fisherman - a weaker voice for rec fisherman when major waters want to be closed to fishing.
No pro fisherman- a demand for yummy fresh fish- rec anglers netting rivers because there is $ to be made, no fisheries exist, no one beside them will complain as they have a net too. ( possible).
No pro fisherman- as above- a black market will thrive. There are thousands of anglers who already sell fish illegally, imagine the freedom available if the above possibilities are true.
I'm not looking for negatives- they just hit you in the face.
Cane toads- lets do that- that'll fix the little beetle problem- Oops!
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I am sorry but I dont see how you can compare cane toads to the buy out of professional fishers.Apples and oranges.
There are plenty of examples both here and OS where pro fishers have been excluded from particular areas in favor of rec fishers/tourism.So why wont it work here in Queensland?Are we that backward here?
Toddy
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I am sorry but I dont see how you can compare cane toads to the buy out of professional fishers.Apples and oranges.
There are plenty of examples both here and OS where pro fishers have been excluded from particular areas in favor of rec fishers/tourism.So why wont it work here in Queensland?Are we that backward here?
Toddy
Don't think it was comparing apple and oranges. More like comapring potential mistakes with mistakes already made at a higher level. The cane toads issue was one of looking at a small part of the overall problem and implementing a fix that ultimately made things worse.....much worse because not all the impacts of the introduction were considered or even taken into account in the first place.
So having no Pro's might help in some respects but what ramifications will that then cause. Having said that they have done it in NSW and that could be used to build a better model given it actually works. If there are less Pro's in NSW who are they relying on to get the population the seafood they want. Other states ?? more pressure means more loss in fish stocks.
Would half the amount of Pro's working on the same limits and quota's work? If not half is there a balance that can be reached? I guess you would need to make sure that the industry doesn't get taken over by a group like the big W and they monopolise the industry.
Cheers Geoff
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If they are going to pay Pros to not fish, I'd better start drafting a letter, because I'm planning to not net Bream, Whiting and Flathead in the Pine River on my way to work each day. I'll probably not net any Bass either. The main thing I won't net is Snapper, especially during February and March next year. I'm not sure how I'll not run my net to specifically not catch Snapper, but I'm sure the Minister will be able to tell me that. I believe there are farmers out west who were offered money to not grow cotton. I'm seriously considering not growing cotton as a career. If I decide to not grow 15,000 hectares of cotton, how much will I get, will they pay me more to not grow 20,000 hectares?
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I don't really believe for one minute that ALL pro's will become extinct. No-one really wants or believes that. However, we would all agree that netting rivers and estuaries is unsustainable. The issue at hand is how to manage the fishery both pro and rec, not just wipe out the pro's overnight so we rec fisho's can live in some fishy nirvana. I believe it's all about balance; and anyway what would be wrong with dropping bag limits? In NSW you can take home 20 legal sized Bream but only 5 legal sized flathead. Firstly who really needs 20 bream given that they are much slower growing than Flathead. Then there's the bycatch of spawning Bass in the rivers and estuaries. Unfortunately the Killit and Fillet mentality is still alive and well. Witness the elderly couple I spoke to recently on the ramp at Baffle Creek. Compaining that the fishing was bad the old lady said the "last year we had to go home after 10 days because our freezer was full." Duh!! IT should also be remembered that most of the seafood we eat in this country comes from overseas, no wonder we have longliners gutting our coastal waters.
JD
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I don't really believe for one minute that ALL pro's will become extinct. No-one really wants or believes that. However, we would all agree that netting rivers and estuaries is unsustainable. The issue at hand is how to manage the fishery both pro and rec, not just wipe out the pro's overnight so we rec fisho's can live in some fishy nirvana. I believe it's all about balance;
Well said Takrat,I was going to reply on the same lines but you've saved me doing it.
I believe selective buy out could be done to increase tourism there is more money generated for the local communities in fishy areas and surrounding regions from tourism than commercial fishing.
I've never said get rid of the lot of them as we do need commercial fishers,but to net species like I mentioned earlier that aren't good table food and to net rivers is unsustainable I believe.
Spottie numbers have increased since ring netting them has ceased,the pros still catch fish by doing the without nets why not other species?
I believe with no history in commercial fishing in a area by a commercial fisherman for target species there would be no payout but if the govt took away your livelyhood you would expect some sort of payout just like when they resume land for something.
Paul
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Thanks Paul, at risk of oversimplifying matters, the success of any scheme lies in the correct administration of it. As Harro pointed out in the beginning there is too much fragmentation among rec fisho's, and so there is a need to not only become better organised, but get some political nous as well. It is no longer good enough to want things the way they have always been because we live in a changing world. We either learn to live within that changing world and make things happen for us or we simply go the way of the dinosaurs. We think nothing of paying small fortunes for a reel or a rod, or heading to fish at a guided operation for over $1000 per day, yet we baulk at the idea of a license system that if properly administered would guarantee fishing into the future, not just now but for our kids. I don't want to be part of a generation that allowed fishing to become something we speak of in the past tense in years to come. Take a leaf from the trade unions and organise or perish.
JD
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Its amazing that there has been little mention of environmental restoration being funded from a general fishing licence. Southern states have used licence fees collected to add fishways to barriers, redesign culvert to improve fish passage, replant riparian vegetation and resnagging work.
For all those banana benders who have seen a distinct lack of adequate fishways, particularly in southern Qld, the prosepect of a fishing licence offers (done properly) offers alot of advantages over the obvious restocking of lakes, buying out pros and boat ramps.
Once there's a honey pot, there will be alot of fingers dipping in for a taste, the driver of the licence (as was seem with the SIP) will have a greater voice in where the honey goes. If recreational anglers are the drivers of an all waters fishing licence in Qld, then there will remain a greater opportunity to have a measure of representation in the allocation of funds to various projects.
Who among the supporters would be willing to run the ball up & push the barrow??
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Might the licencing fees be used for research aswell for finding the achillies heel of noxious fish ? just the word about was that someone is working on a type of "Myxomatosis" for noxious fish please correct me if i am wrong just what i have heard.
There is certainly little limits into what feilds that licence funding can go towards it would just be a juggling act with whome gets how much for what wich creates a problem in itself.
Steve
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Its amazing that there has been little mention of environmental restoration being funded from a general fishing licence. Southern states have used licence fees collected to add fishways to barriers, redesign culvert to improve fish passage, replant riparian vegetation and resnagging work.
For all those banana benders who have seen a distinct lack of adequate fishways, particularly in southern Qld, the prosepect of a fishing licence offers (done properly) offers alot of advantages over the obvious restocking of lakes, buying out pros and boat ramps.
Once there's a honey pot, there will be alot of fingers dipping in for a taste, the driver of the licence (as was seem with the SIP) will have a greater voice in where the honey goes. If recreational anglers are the drivers of an all waters fishing licence in Qld, then there will remain a greater opportunity to have a measure of representation in the allocation of funds to various projects.
Who among the supporters would be willing to run the ball up & push the barrow??
I often wonder who Editor is, you should post some more. Not just the media links :thumbsup
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Deja Vu ?
How about we abolish the PPV levy scam & roll the SIP's scheme into a general rec license & place all the money into trust accounts ( One for Freshwater kicked off at the highest average raised by the SIPS scheme over the last 3 years & the balance going into a new saltwater trust ) so that ALL of the money can be manged/spent by rec anglers in order to carry out what we all know needs doing !
There's currently talk of a snapper permit - And I'll say it again - "a species specific permit/licence is the beginning of the end" ........
Regards Scotto
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Qoute & Reply *
Imagine possibilities like this-
No pro fisherman- no fishery officers to protect rivers- (possible job extinction).
* Why would there be no fisheries officers - I don't believe we're asking for ALL commercial fishing to be removed - are you suggesting the commercial sector fund the fisheries dept ?
No pro fisherman- no experienced persons on the water 24/7 keeping tabs on anything fishy.
* Are you suggesting the rec sector / charter industries etc don't contribute to fisheries experience & management ?
No pro fisherman- no quick reporting to customs of wrong doing- especially in remote coastal areas.
* Again - Rec angler consistently report wrongdoing's - often by commercial fishers ...................... Plenty of rec anglers on the water every day ?
No pro fisherman - no prawns for the table or for your hook.
Again - plenty of prawns coming in from the GULF & aquaculture - I don't believe there is any suggestion to remove all teh commercial effort ?
No pro fisherman- less studies on fisheries and management.
* What about the important rec species that are not currently receiving funding for research - if it's not on the commercial list they currently get nothing ?
No pro fisherman - a weaker voice for rec fisherman when major waters want to be closed to fishing.
*You have gotta be kidding - it's just QF don't listen - there's been plenty of feed back over the rec sector through a range of rec angler groups ( Sunfish, Eco Fisheries, QFLP, ANSA , QGFA , QAFA etc ) the last few years I have been in the state - doe's QF listen though ......................
No pro fisherman- a demand for yummy fresh fish- rec anglers netting rivers because there is $ to be made, no fisheries exist, no one beside them will complain as they have a net too. ( possible)
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* Again - I do not believe we're looking to remove all the commercial effort - just the ones from key rec area's - estuaries - havens ....................
No pro fisherman- as above- a black market will thrive. There are thousands of anglers who already sell fish illegally, imagine the freedom available if the above possibilities are true.
* Again - if that was the case - QF would not be doing their job ...........................
* I've heard it all before - Scotto
I'm not looking for negatives- they just hit you in the face.
Cane toads- lets do that- that'll fix the little beetle problem- Oops!
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Scotto, tit for tat. Like I've said, there's no easy resolve.
We've all heard both sides of the story before. NO SIMPLE FIX EXISTS. Funding lacks in fisheries as it is- patrol boats tied up for extended periods- laying idle. Could reducing inshore, estuary commercial effort be the straw that broke the camels back? Fisheries activities being reduced further? A lot of things aren't rock solid in the industry- a domino affect could be imminent. I could jump on your side of the story and support it fully, but it'd be wrong to support something that isn't a simple circumstance, without in depth ramifications. It may seem rosey to remove effort from an estuary, coastal fringe or wherever, but who's to say extra impact won't come to those areas through rec angling- the side affect on species x, unknown. Take the Boyne River for example- what's just happend down there? 1000's of hungry metre fish dumped into a small system. Was that intended imbalance planned, I'd guess not, but it was a known probability. Breeding, and juvenile fish (the beloved permit included)- you can kiss there arses good bye this season, but hey, hang on, think of the fun fishing to be had by rec anglers- but we need to think past that to greater issues. Where do we start? Dams on hundreds of rivers country wide- reclaimation coastal wide. Environment degredation left, right and centre. Without, creeks, rivers, flats, sea grasses and the like, we'd have no fishing at all.
This chat can go on forever. Innevitably I believe commercial fishing will be reduced in estuary systems in Qld in the coming years, but not with a straight cull, and not without hidden issues that arise along the way. I'm not anti-rec angling at all, nor fully backing commercial issues, but I am airing laundry so a larger picture is seen and hopefully absorbed. Enjoy your farmed prawns this Christmas, thousands will be buying wild product, taken direct from the estuaries, and coastal waters, Australia wide, probably from the waters within a few miles of homes. No-one will batter an eye-lid whilst consuming the prawn. I'll be eating local product. You? Scallops even?
Johnny
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Isn't most of our prawns from coastal trawl? If so why would the buyout of commercial estuary netters cause us to be forced to eat farmed prawns? Sounds like a bit of creative journalism to me!
Steve
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Steve,
Beam trawling occurs in estuaries, harbours and just outside the shore break in some areas- prawns being taken from all areas, where legal. The only thing creative here, is how they drive their vessels. Commercial netters also trawl, crab and engage in other fisheries within the estuary and adjacent coastal fringe, but only if they have the endorsements to do such. Many licences carry several endorsements, but when one fishery is closed, viability may crumble, and fisherman themselves may be forced to withdraw, or restructure effort in other fisheries or areas, increasing effort and possibly impact elsewhere.
The whole topic is sour, it'll cause angst until the cows come home. Human nature sees to that.
Johnny
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Funnily - our best tasting prawn (IMO) is the Crystal bay prawn ....... and its a farmed prawn.
Netting is too indiscriminate for me ...... too much by catch
Chris
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Johnny
Thanks for the reply, but my understanding is that a varst amount of our wild catch prawn is offshore under a T1 endorsement or TS. For the guys further south, the M1 or M2 licences come into play. I forget the % but it is by far the majority of the wild catch prawn we enjoy, so the lost of some beam trawl prawns would not force everyone to chew farmed prawns. This is my point and reason for my post.
I agree with the rest of what you say about estuary commercial fisherman having a multiple catch (endorsement) business and that by losing one aspect of their business puts their whole business at risk. I deal with a lot of commercial fisherman (trawl, line, crab, long line, beam, beach haul, etc) every year for work and do not want to see them forced out of business without adequate compensation. I also don't see a rec licence funded buyout scheme being targeted against all commercial fisherman in all areas. If a buyout does occur, it needs to be done better than more recent SAP schemes and needs to be setup to avoid effort creep and as you said, affect other areas/businesses.
All the best
Steve
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Steve,
Yes, you are right, I understand that, trawl fisheries are not just creek bound, and the total catch comes from all stages of prawn (eg. banana) development and prawn migration, targeted for bait and table food in Australia. The domino affect could have that farmed prawn on the table if the ball gets rolling. Starting with estuaries, what commercial fishery (in or off shore) would be taken away next and who's creek system might become a no take zone, and what closures would come after that initial stepping stone is in place? I suppose the context of this topic could go down any line, based on a host of possibilities and probabilities.
I don't have the answer, as mentioned, and neither does anyone here. We all have opinions and visions, but we don't have a crystal ball or simulator to see what happens in every situation. We all test the waters, only to find a hurdle in place. Like I discussed with Harro the other day in a personal chat, it's one hell of a job trying to manage fisheries in Australian waters to create balance, fairness and a future. Problems being we need to eat, and humans like to have fun. That is the drama at hand. It shouldn't get personal in any town or river, but it does, emotions running high over a resource and a trillion hungry mouths. Industry in our town will naturally push commercial fishers away from the harbour- development and reclaimation of foreshore, habitat destruction and no go zones will see to that. A natural death, along with important environments and fish homes. Just watch the development of Gladstone harbour in the next two years. We once had...........
Cheers.
Johnny
I'm out of breathe- and we won't resolve it. Two stories- Two tough ones.
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I don't quite get where all this doom and gloom is coming from. Here in NSW we've seen great success in fish stock regeneration after buying out pro's from estuarine waters. No one appears to have been wronged and most of the pro's involved were happy to take the buyout. Some went on to other things, some bought up latent licences in other areas. I'm not a fan of the latter happening but still it's something that can be rectified the second time round.
No one is suggesting the whole pro effort be bought out, just the unsustainable ones. The buyout is to be seen like a redundancy ( and this bit is for you Fitzy), if you were told your work isn't needed anymore you'd be wanting a payout right? And considering we the rec fisho are the ones championing the removal of pro's from rivers etc we should be the ones footing the bill, right? I agree that dead wood should be jettisoned but when the powers that be are too useless to do it themselves then a little initiative doesn't go too far astray. As for future use of funding there's plenty it can be put to, restocking, habitat regeneration, research, repairs/upgrades to facilities (we see lots of this in NSW), and dare I say it a concerted effort to fix the runoff problems we face, just to name a few.
There really is far too many unsustainable practices going on out there at the moment and they need to be recitfied. Take the Hunter river prawn for example. If they bothered to let the poor things get out to Stockton Bight instead of punishing them in the river the pro's would be getting a better class of prawn and the species would have a chance. Doesn't take much brain power but it appears the pen pushers put it into the too hard basket. I'm sure the same thing is happening in QLD and it needs to be fixed. If rec angler dollars are needed to help then so be it, better for all in the long run. Johnny, if it turned out that our buying out of dead wood, leaving the better operators a bigger share of the pie, turned profitable to those left, would this be a bad thing?
I can't help but think there's still some heads in the sand on this one. I was opposed to a licence in the first instance in NSW but after the results I've seen over the last 10-15 years I'm more than happy to shell out $30 a year, christ I'd fork out $100 a year if it weren't for Marine Parks and fisheries gaining money's from the trust to lock us out of Fish Rock because of a ring around 10 years ago, but that's another gripe for another day.
So far licences work. Fitz I get what you're saying about the SIP side of things but that can be continued under the all encompassing licence, it's not that hard to do. As for the rest, the evidence is there at the moment, can't see why you wouldn't.
All this said I was told today that there's a push to let pro's back in to Rec fishing havens because they've become so productive. If they Gov't allows this heads will literally roll!
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I have said this many times on another forum and I will sau it again.
1. How about DERM fix the quality of the waterways first then let's see what happens to the fish stocks.
2. NSW has more population and less coatline than Qld therefore any license fees up here will be stretched a lot further.
3. Qld Govt cannot even manage the funding of the boat ramps correctly..and they get the PPV for that.
4. Qld has a huge tourism industry which is already struggling..we going to slug visitors another fee to have a fish. We visited Yamba last year..had to buy a license just to fish for a weekend. I won't be going back there for that reason alone..so the accomodation houses and restaurants dip out also.
5. If a license is introduced, who will constitute the controlling board? Will they be appointed by the Minister or elected vis the AEC by all license holders?
6.Will Central and North Qld get fair representation and monies spent equally in those areas. They already get the short end of the stick behind SEQ.
7. Will funds be taken form license fees to fund scientific research which should already by funded by Fisheries?
8. There are many people struggling now to make ends meet with rego water and electricity prices on the increase. Who do we think we are to stop some poor bugger taking his kids for a fish from the shorline somewhere. Probably one of the few outdoor activities they can afford.
Based on this and a few other reasons: NO way to a rec fishing license in Qld.
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I think Stephan has nailed it pretty well. The other waterway getting flogged is the Clarence. On any day you can see the the little prawn trawlers going up and down the river. The by catch is very real and most of these blokes would rather fish offshore but can't afford the gear to do it. A fishing licence is pretty small beer compared to what we have invested in fishing gear and boats. I really love it whan some bloke pulls into a caravan park along the NSW North Coast in a $70,000 caravan being pulled by an $80,000 Landcruiser then bitches about the cost of a license. All that aside, even us baggy arse fisho's who camp under canvas seldom grizzle about the cost of a license. The positive results of it are all around us. Once again, the tourism benefits of rec fishing are enormous as are the benefits to the locals, Pro's included. I just think that nobody trusts the Queensland Government. Too many Sir Humphries and not enough real workers.
JD
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There will have to be some balance in this fellas. I catch and release, when my wife wants fish for the table she goes shopping. Has a variety to choose from too. The last thing I want to see is only imported fish on the shelves. I won't eat the imported cr@p. If that becomes the case then our leaders will start looking at the stocks in the dams and allow professionals in. Regards Gordon
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True Gordon. or on the other hand the Sir Humphries will simply look at the dams and say "let them fish there and we'll close off all the rest." Don't think it can't happen.
JD