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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nativeman on June 05, 2014, 09:44:52 PM

Title: Closed Bass Season
Post by: Nativeman on June 05, 2014, 09:44:52 PM
Fisheries slightly different interpenetration this year,  http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/fisheries/consultations-and-legislation/legislation/legislation-changes (http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/fisheries/consultations-and-legislation/legislation/legislation-changes)

Discuss....

Brisbane below the wall can now be fished?

Cheers
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: aussiebasser on June 05, 2014, 09:50:23 PM
Great news.  About time they stopped protecting fish that were stocked to be caught, not breed.
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: Nativeman on June 05, 2014, 10:29:30 PM
Great news.  About time they stopped protecting fish that were stocked to be caught, not breed.


But then there is this one the same site, how confusing!  http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/rules-regulations/closed-seasons-fresh-waters (http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/rules-regulations/closed-seasons-fresh-waters)

So tidal can't be fished, yes? But by the above link below all these dams in the above link that are not tidal can't be fished? Am I totally misreading this??

Ambiguous?
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: rayke1938 on June 06, 2014, 03:55:20 AM
Australian bass closures

A spawning closure applies to Australian bass between 1 June and 31 August each year, including in a number of impoundments where Australian bass are stocked for recreational fishing purposes and where they are unable to breed. To ensure that the spawning closure applies only to wild Australian bass, an amendment has been made to limit the current closure on the take of Australian bass to tidal waters only. This will allow recreational fishers to continue to fish for Australian bass in impoundments where they are stocked, without impacting upon the annual spawning of this species.
Closed areas adjacent to dams, barrages and weirs

Closures are in place adjacent to dams, barrages and weirs throughout Queensland to protect fish that congregate in these areas during their annual migration. Previously these closed areas have varied greatly from one area to another in size. Closure distances adjacent to most dams, barrages and weirs have now been standardised to be 100m upstream to 200m downstream of the structure. Where there are safety concerns at specific structures additional closure limits will still apply.
Further information

    Fisheries Regulation 2008
Nice how they kept it secret.
Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: UBK on June 06, 2014, 08:18:56 AM
Soo from interpretation,  we can fish the majority of the upper Brissy still?
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: aussiebasser on June 06, 2014, 08:41:45 AM
The upper Brisbane River is above Wivenhoe, so yes, you seem to now be able to fish the Middle Brisbane River from Kholo to the wall as well.  It reads like it may be a temporary thing this year, maybe a trial.  We're trying to get clarification.
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: UBK on June 06, 2014, 10:08:12 AM
Oh right well I meant middle then :)
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: Brooksy on June 06, 2014, 10:21:22 AM
Sorry for the confusion everyone but it would seem that our Tech people are a little slow in updating all the web sites and links.
This is a permanent change to the legislation that will now alllow angling of bass in freshwater throughout the year, whilst still acheiving the intention of the original legislation by protecting breeding bass in tidal areas during the spawning season.
 
This is not to be confused to another change within the legislation to simplify the the closed waters above and below barriers.


Cheers Steve
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: Sweetwater on June 06, 2014, 10:34:13 AM
In a nutshell, you can now target bass above the first barrier without having to say you're fishing for yellowbelly.
So this means the Mary River above the barrage, Brisbane River above Mt Crosby, Bremer River above Berry's Lagoon Weir and significantly those dams/lakes that were not exempt previously from the bass closed season eg Ewen Maddock Dam, Wyaralong Dam ......

It's a great move for recreational fishing in Qld by DAFF, they should be applauded for making a move on an issue that was long overdue to be fixed.  :Clap)



Now I wonder what can be done about all these fools fishing for cod in the Mary....????
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: UBK on June 06, 2014, 11:36:26 AM
Well it gives them more of an excuse to fish mary cod in winter now too. .
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: snodger on June 06, 2014, 11:40:44 AM
I totaly agree with the interpretation of the new regulation about tidal waters. However I called fisheries this morning and there take was quite different and this is what they said: Although the statement about tidal waters leaves everywhere that is not tidal open slather he referred me to the statement that states where bass can be taken and said we only allow bass fishing in these areas in closed season. I suggested if that was the case they change the statement on tidal waters as this is confusing the whole issue.
He responded there is no confusion amongst fisheries staff lol.
If the regs state it its good enough for me.
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: Brooksy on June 06, 2014, 11:54:17 AM
Snodger who did you talk to?

Cheers Steve
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: snodger on June 06, 2014, 11:58:46 AM
Steve I cant remember the guys name sorry. He was quite adimant tho.
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: Brooksy on June 06, 2014, 12:11:22 PM
Was he a QBFP officer?
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: WayneD on June 06, 2014, 12:50:52 PM
I sent this email

Hi

There is a bit of confusion on some fishing web sites about the legislation changes that have been put in place for Australian Bass. In this link http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/fisheries/consultations-and-legislation/legislation/legislation-changes (http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/fisheries/consultations-and-legislation/legislation/legislation-changes) it says that the closed season applies to “tidal waters only” but then in this link http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/rules-regulations/closed-seasons-fresh-waters (http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/rules-regulations/closed-seasons-fresh-waters) it says that the closed season still applies in non-tidal waters.

So is it going to be legal to target bass in totally freshwater rivers for the next three months? For instance, can I fish the section of the Brisbane River below the wall at Wivenhoe where it is non tidal?

Thanks.

Wayne Dunkley


and this is the response I got

Good Morning Wayne

Thank you for contacting our Customer Service Centre.
 
Your email sourcing clarification for the bass closure and recreational fishing has been received.  As advised on our website a closed season applies to both tidal and fresh waters for Australian bass from 1 June to 31 August.  However in fresh waters only  there are exceptions listed.  As you advise one exception is in and from waterways upstream of Wivenhoe Dam.  As well, during the closure you can fish for bass in Wivenhoe Dam with a stocked impoundment permit.  The minimum size limit is 30cm and the ‘bag’ or possession limit is two.

 I advise the Brisbane River: from 100 m upstream to 200 m downstream of Old Mt Crosby Weir; from 100 m upstream to 200 m downstream of Mt Crosby Weir; from 100 m upstream to 600 m downstream of the Wivenhoe Dam wall is closed to all forms of fishing.  I refer you to our  website  http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/rules-regulations/closed-waters-freshwater-areas (http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/rules-regulations/closed-waters-freshwater-areas)
 

So the way I read this information is that the closed season still applies in fresh water apart from the exceptions which have always been in place apart from a few changes?
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: UBK on June 06, 2014, 12:57:19 PM
So WTF is with the amended regulations then, they state the complete opposite. I might print them out and laminate it and keep with me during closed season!
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: snodger on June 06, 2014, 01:03:33 PM
Was he a QBFP officer?

Not sure he answered the line when I got through to fisheries.

My opinion is that the statement about tidal closures is correct and also about closures around barrages and dam walls etc. The statement about tidal closures is in the regulations and it is the over riding legislation. There are no new amendments to the legislation so that statement in the Regs stands.
What is in the latest edition of the fisheries Regulations:

42 Prohibited activities and regulated period
(1) A regulated person must not—
(a) take Australian bass in tidal waters during the regulated

period; or
(b) possess Australian bass
taken in contravention of
paragraph (a).
(2) For subsection (1)(a), the regulated period is from 1 June to 31 August

Division 1 Regulated persons
41 Regulated persons for pt 5
Any person is a regulated person

Now surely anything else stated on websites and by fisheries personnel is speculation or their own opinion based on lack of knowledge of the regulation.

My opinion anyhow.
Steve
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: Brooksy on June 06, 2014, 01:11:56 PM
As I said earlier there are a few issues with upgrading the websites etc and this is where the service centre get the information they use in replies. I believe this is being addressed now.
Snodger which fisheries did you ring?

Cheers Steve
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: Brooksy on June 06, 2014, 01:13:31 PM
Snodger thanks for quoting the regs
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: snodger on June 06, 2014, 01:29:42 PM
I went through the DAFF info line. Sorry I am not being much help here.
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: StevenM on June 06, 2014, 06:05:15 PM
Wayne

re their reply below in this statement

I advise the Brisbane River: from 100 m upstream to 200 m downstream of Old Mt Crosby Weir; from 100 m upstream to 200 m downstream of Mt Crosby Weir; from 100 m upstream to 600 m downstream of the Wivenhoe Dam wall is closed to all forms of fishing.  I refer you to our  website  http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/rules-regulations/closed-waters-freshwater-areas (http://www.daff.qld.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/rules-regulations/closed-waters-freshwater-areas)

http://www.sweetwaterfishing.com.au/Forum/index.php?topic=6861.0 (http://www.sweetwaterfishing.com.au/Forum/index.php?topic=6861.0)


To me this means I can fish from 600 meters downstream of the Wivenhoe Dam Wall to 100 meters upstream of the Mt Crosby Weir.

Brooksy, as an officer, what is this "toil and trouble" mumbo jumbo anyway?

Can we fish upstream of the Crosby Weir?  Plain and Simple or what is your interpretation of the new rules.

Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: Nativeman on June 06, 2014, 06:45:52 PM

Can we fish upstream of the Crosby Weir?  Plain and Simple or what is your interpretation of the new rules.

Yes,I reckon, start from Kholo as the river closed down there to all traffic...
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: aussiebasser on June 06, 2014, 06:47:13 PM
It seems this has been some really last minute, rushed regulation writing.  Giving Brooksy the third degree isn't going to solve it.  The Stocking Group have a meeting with DAFF officers soon, and I gather this was to be discussed there.  Snoggers posting of the regulations pretty much spells it out.  Before everybody opens up on Brooksy, we should realise that these changes were made above his pay grade so he is not responsible.  He's also on his own time at the moment.  I'm sure he's trying to arrange for a simple English press release to be made.  The amendment is only a couple of days old, and the Department is operating at greatly reduced staffing.
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: StevenM on June 06, 2014, 09:01:10 PM
Not putting any pressure on Brooksy by any means

Totally understand that he never made the rules or changes

But what have the field guys been told or what is the correct interpretation of the cr@p that has been posted in broken Engrish
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: Sweetwater on June 07, 2014, 12:27:43 AM
Just to clarify one thing... The exclusion zone above Mt Crosby weir up Kholo Bridge is not & has never been a fisheries reg. The only "fisheries" closure above Mt Crosby weir is 100m I think.

The rest of the water between Kholo Bridge & Mt Crosby weir was some Brisbane City Council mumbo jumbo exclusion zone, apparently for water quality, Sorry, only registered users can see this content. Please Login or Register.
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: Barney on June 07, 2014, 07:59:53 AM
lts about time fisheries/other departments produced simple maps designating exclusion zones for whatever species and whatever time of year. Much more user friendly , stupidly easy to produce.

l think they have them in victoria?

Barney.
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: cfish on June 08, 2014, 05:40:27 PM
It appears the lawmakers are defining tidal waters as those unobstructed by any man made barriers, this is very confusing as you will find maps indicating the tidal limit , unless there is a weir or rockbar this is in the freshwater although there is still a rise and fall due to tidal influence. Massive confuse coming on I'd say.
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: snodger on June 08, 2014, 06:16:50 PM
I am sure they will clarify it in the coming days hey
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: rayke1938 on June 08, 2014, 07:04:10 PM
It has opened up a can of worms,
 No thought of protecting the bass as they migrate to their breeding grounds in creeks and rivers that do not have man made barriers.
It would have been more definitive if they would have named the areas of rivers and dams where bass could be targeted.
 Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: Sweetwater on June 09, 2014, 01:14:01 PM
It has opened up a can of worms,
 No thought of protecting the bass as they migrate to their breeding grounds in creeks and rivers that do not have man made barriers.
It would have been more definitive if they would have named the areas of rivers and dams where bass could be targeted.
 Cheers
Ray

In an open system (with no man made barriers), I don't think the fish congregate until they hit the tidal waters. All tidal waters are covered so...........
I think only a small percentage of resident fish actually shoot off to spawn on a given year, so why protect those fish that are not spawning with a closed season as was previously the case?



In Bass' natural range in Qld, I'm wondering how many open systems there are? Nerang R  no, Commera R no, Pimpama R no, Albert R no, Logan R no, Brisbane R no, Bremer R no, South Pine R - hhhhmmm??, North Pine R no, Caboolture R no, Pummicstone feeders yes but mostly tidal any way, Mooloola no, South Maroochy R no, North Maroochy yes but tidal most of way to Eumundi, Noosa R yes but mostly tidal, Sandy Straights feeders many are covered by green zones, Mary R no.

 As I've said a hundred times before; we really don't want stocked bass with unknown genetic variability joining the spawning, but they do. They're stocked for the purpose of recreational fishing, why protect them in waters above a weir / barrage etc. I'ts like buying a new car & the gubberment telling you that you're not allowed to drive it for 3 months of the year, crazy....
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: rayke1938 on June 09, 2014, 03:43:07 PM
I have no problems opening up closed waters that currently not part of the sip.
 I have no problems opening up waters above man made or natural barriers .
 Since the last floods I doubt that (Maybe with the exception of the Noosa ?????)there is such a thing as a truly wild bass in SEQ.
There are quite a few streams/creeks without any weirs etc that now sustain a population of bass since the floods and surely these fish deserve a degree of protection?
If they could previously publish a list of waters that bass could be targeted during closed season why not just extend the list to name the rivers/streams with barriers/weirs and state targeting bass above the barriers is permissible.
I believe that that would be the sensible solution.
Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: aussiebasser on June 09, 2014, 06:35:22 PM
So Ray, you want a list of every river and stream and creek in Queensland which could run to hundreds, rather than a rule that is easy to understand.  If the water goes up and down with the tide you can't fish it, seems simple enough to me.
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: elops on June 09, 2014, 06:56:09 PM
If you look at in simple terms.
Old regs were impossible to enforce anyway.
ALL Bass are now a mix of stocked fish with a minute fraction of a percent of wild fish with the exception of the Noosa which is the original source of stocked fish genetics anyway.
There is no shortage of Bass ANYWHERE now with millions more to be stocked in the future.
Only downside to the change that I can see is the effect on the natural and founder populations of MRC in the other catchments.
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: rayke1938 on June 09, 2014, 07:33:13 PM
Gary has already listed the major  rivers with weirs etc which are the ones that everyone wished to fish in the previous closed season.
Much easier than trying to determine the limit of tidal waters.
I am waiting for a written opinion on what exactly determines tidal water.
 One call centre opinion said taste the water yet another person said limit of mangroves.
Or it could even be limit of rise and fall caused by tidal movement which of course depends on fresh water heights and also tidal heights.
 What rise and fall constitutes tidal movement?
May be millions going into  dams that are part pf the SIP but currently no funding for stocking  non sip dams or rivers and streams.
Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: elops on June 09, 2014, 08:11:59 PM
Tidal waters rise and fall and flow both ways....................................
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: Brooksy on June 10, 2014, 10:34:12 AM
Tidal Waters Legal Definition:
Bodies of water within a state's territorial waters and that are subject to the ebb and flow of ordinary tides, whether navigable or not
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: rayke1938 on June 11, 2014, 12:43:25 PM
 Please find attached the answer to one of my Questions that I submitted. The last line about common sense is pertinent
As I get answers to the other ones I will also post.
Cheers
Ray

To: OQPC Legislation Queries

Subject: New fisheries legislation re closed season Australian Bass.



With reference to the new legislation re closed season for Australian Bass etc.

Could you please tell me how one determines whether waters are tidal.

is there a difference between tidal influence which can vary due to various factors and tidal waters as stated in the legislation.




Good morning,



It is an interesting area and I appreciate the challenge,



Essentially it relates to an area subject to tidal influence so will vary depending upon tidal conditions and topography.



As a general rule there are vegetation changes that can be used to indicate this are of influence/change in ecosystems. Any natural feature that separates bodies of water can also be of assistance.



See Survey and Mapping Infrastructure Act 2003 section 70 & 71



other similar language relating to a watercourse at a

place where the waters of the watercourse are subject

to tidal influence

See

www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/S/SurvMapInfA03.pdf (http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/S/SurvMapInfA03.pdf)



The fisheries Act referrers to Non tidal land

nontidal land includes land permanently or periodically

submerged by waters not subject to tidal influence.



And tidal land as



tidal land includes reefs, shoals and other land permanently or

periodically submerged by waters subject to tidal influence.





As always common sense applies to these situations.
( Name deleted )
District Manager North Coast Cluster Queensland Boating and Fisheries Patrol

Fisheries Queensland | Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry
Marine Operations Base Mac Arthur Avenue East Pinkenba Qld 4008
GPO Box 10 Pinkenba Qld 4008
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: aussiebasser on June 11, 2014, 01:10:38 PM
I don't think it's up for interpretation Ray, the following are all the Government definitions for "Tidal Waters" that I can find.  A Court or an Enforcement Officer will only be able to go by a published definition of the term:

Harbour Boards Act 1892
- SECT 7 Interpretation
"Tidal Water" means and part of the sea or of
a river within the ebb and flow of the tide at
ordinary spring tide

MARINE PARKS ACT
1982 - SECT 9
"tidal waters" means Queensland waters
that are subject to tidal influence.

RECREATION AREAS
MANAGEMENT ACT
1988 - SECT 5
"tidal waters" means Queensland waters that
are within the ebb and flow of the tide at
spring tides.
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: aussiebasser on June 11, 2014, 01:14:37 PM
The Fisheries Act 1994 does not have a specific definition for "Tidal Waters", so I would suggest that any of the above could be used.
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: Sweetwater on June 11, 2014, 07:08:11 PM
When the hair splitting & post pissing are all said & done, we seem to be forgetting that Qld's Fisheries managers have done a great thing for recreational fishing, pure & simple. This should be applauded. I for one thank the person's involved in getting this change made.  :Clap)

If you going fishing for bass, during the closed season, and you're not sure if you're in tidal waters or not, don't do it..... simple.

We're also forgetting that aussie bass are regulated in other ways; these are minimum size limits and bag limits. Even if someone is a couple of meters on the wrong side of the tide, the above mentioned limits should limit impact anyway. What's the worst that can be done?

Cheers,

Fitz..
Title: Re: Closed Bass Season
Post by: UBK on June 11, 2014, 08:42:19 PM
Oh you should see the cr@p arguments on stalkbook. "They need a 3 month break from being flogged" lol more intelligence in a common house brick than out there ..