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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sweetwater on June 05, 2011, 10:32:07 AM

Title: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: Sweetwater on June 05, 2011, 10:32:07 AM
At a meeting between fish restocking groups & Qld Fisheries on 4 June at Fernvale, attendees were told that the interpretation was that the fishing for bass during the closed season is permitted, but "taking" bass is not.

This being the case, it's a green light for those who practice catch & release to fish for bass year round in Qld waters.

I would think that morals should come into the play. There is a vast difference between bass that are genuinely wild fish eg Noosa Vs stocked fish eg Brisbane, Nerang, Pine Rivers.

What do you think?

Fitzy..
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: rayke1938 on June 05, 2011, 01:13:05 PM
Gary
 Did they put it in writing because this seems to be the opposite to the attached ruling that I obtained previously in 2009.
 For this to be legal I would believe that the wording of the act would have to be changed and specifically name the exempted waters.
Reynolds creek, Lake Kurwongbah and above caboolture weir also come to mind.
off the top of my head and I am certain that there are other waters.
 Cheers
Ray
 

 



 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ramage, Anita
Sent: Tuesday, 1 September 2009 9:07 AM
To: raymond kennedy
Cc: Roy, Darren
Subject: RE: Definition of word take closed season aust bass.
 

Hi Ray

 

This is the definition of “take” as stated in the Fisheries Act 1994

 

take fisheries resources includes—

(a) catch, gather, kill or obtain from water or land; and

(b) attempt to catch, gather, kill or obtain from water or

land; and

(c) land (from a boat or in another way), bring ashore or

tranship.
 

You will notice that attempting to catch fish is included in the definition of take and therefore my understanding is that if someone is attempting to take a species of fish during a closed season they would be in breech of the regulation.

 

Cheers

Anita

<><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><
Anita Ramage
Senior Fisheries Management Officer
Fisheries Harvest Management
Queensland Primary Industries and Fisheries
Department of Education, Economic Development and Innovation (DEEDI)
Phone 07 3247 5009 Facsimile 07 3229 8146
Email anita.ramage@deedi.qld.gov.au
Website www.dpi.qld.gov.au Call Centre 13 25 23
Queensland celebrates its 150th anniversary in 2009. Check out what's on today at www.q150.qld.gov.au

 
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Sweetwater on June 05, 2011, 01:38:06 PM
G'Day Ray, Not put in writting, as it states it in the Fisheries Act as "taking" is restricted with no mention of "targeting". The act was put on the screen for all attending to clearly see.



The quote from Anita is from Fisheries Act 1994, section 4 (Schedule / Dictionary)  pages 123 and refers to take.
It was explained that with C&R fishing there is no intent to take so the section quoted is an interpretation of the wording of "take" for "not take" which are different IMHO.

Australian runs by letter of the law, not intepretation of the law apparently.

Interesting reading...

Cheers,

fitz..
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Little grey men on June 05, 2011, 02:20:35 PM
I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread I think. I wonder what would happen if they ran into you in the sections of water that we usually avoid this time of year ?
Who's going to go first ?
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: rayke1938 on June 05, 2011, 02:26:41 PM
I tried to get a clarification of the act in writing  because if you rang up depending who answered the phone you would get an different answer and there was a guide down the coast who stated he was ok because he was catching and releasing in CIW and the nerang and he ended up getting pinged.
The wording of the act re barra is quite precise  but the lawyers could make a fortune re bass legisation.
Lets hope that they do promulagate it in writing so that everyone is clear particually their own enforcement section and the water police.
 Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Brett Guy on June 05, 2011, 05:07:05 PM
To be honest I don't think it matters what the wording means because I don't like targeting spawning bass. I have caught them while fishing for bream but wont intentionally cahse them. If I want to chase bass in winter I simply used to fish for them in the same areas I do in summer. Not as easy but they are certainly catchable(Not all bass spawn every year).
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: dinodadog on June 05, 2011, 05:43:14 PM
Look out Brissy river here we come
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Sweetwater on June 05, 2011, 05:54:53 PM
To be honest I don't think it matters what the wording means because I don't like targeting spawning bass. I have caught them while fishing for bream but wont intentionally cahse them. If I want to chase bass in winter I simply used to fish for them in the same areas I do in summer. Not as easy but they are certainly catchable(Not all bass spawn every year).

Very good point Brett. Bass don't spawn way up woop woop in the sweetwater, its done in the rust water. I recon it comes down to the individual to be at peace with their own conscience...Fishing for spawning bass in a wild river (that is unstocked & unregulated system) is poor form. The other end is those bass that are stocked and from a regulated waterway. If the fish are stocked it is widely hoped that these fish will not be able to join any breeding population due to narrow genetic variability. Actually, stocked bass that go AWOL "should" be taken before they get to the rust water.


Here's a copy & paste from Qld Fisheries Website just to muddy the waters...
Quote
To fish or not to fish?You can’t fish for Australian bass from 1 June to 31 August, but you can fish for other species that don’t have a closed season at that time.
Acording to that you can't fish for bass anywhere at all.


Interesting....hhhhmmmmm
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Brad on June 05, 2011, 06:11:54 PM
Realistically I doubt fisheries could ever prosecute anyone chasing bass on a river in closed season unless the fisher was caught with a bass in posession. If you are fishing for bass on a river in closed season you could "really" be targeting any number of fish with too many to list.
I would think that anyone who wants to practice C&R on bass in closed season can do so regardless of what the law reads because it's simply impossible to prove or disprove bass were the target without a fish in possesion.

I agree with Fitz that the morals should be the deciding factor. As an example I can't see any big deal with chasing bass well above the Mount Crosby weir. But somewhere like Noosa is a whole different ball game. It's pretty hard to have a bunch of different rules for different locations.

Interesting topic

Brad
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Little grey men on June 05, 2011, 06:47:06 PM
Interesting thoughts Fitz. poor future reproductive performance due to dodgy genetics could certainly be a problem. I guess the question then is, how many actual wild bass are still around  that could be tarnished with these problems ?
Time will tell I guess. Is a scary thought though.
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Binder on June 05, 2011, 06:54:33 PM
The advice was not from a fisheries enforcement officer, personally I believe it is wrong.

I also reckon the Fisheries Enforcement Officer who caught you sitting on top of a school of bass pulling them in one after another would just about spit his teeth laughing if you told him the reason you were breaching a law was because you had a verbal interpretation of the rules from someone in the Department who was not an enforcement officer.

I believe it was just a discussion amongst a group of fisho's and a personal opinion from the gentlemen concerned. (not the opinion of the Department) , very few people are empowered to make public statement on behalf of any government department. (Which I dont think he was intending to do, as said, just his opinion)

Please no one go spouting this as gospel, or stating they have a statement from someone in authority, or god forbid mention his name - you'll only get the poor buggers but kicked. (Whether he is right or wrong, and he is a good bloke who helps us out a lot).

Extract from the current guide, similar to the attachment  Fitzy found on the web site, attached.
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: bushwacker on June 05, 2011, 07:11:05 PM
Fitzy, This is a very bold suggestion if not statement.. I will keep my 2 cents out of this but a really good long hard think about this needs to take place.

Steve
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: PMC on June 05, 2011, 07:13:08 PM
Keep it black and white, no grey areas.
That way, someone isnt going to have an argument over how they interpret the law, and the fishing improves with a spell as well
There are plenty of lakes with Bass in them.
Nothing wrong with going out on the bay for some Snapper at this time of year either :youbeauty
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Sweetwater on June 05, 2011, 07:15:19 PM
Fitzy, This is a very bold suggestion if not statement.. I will keep my 2 cents out of this but a really good long hard think about this needs to take place.

Steve

Specifically in regard to what Steve? Why hold back on offering your thoughts??? Your thoughts are what I'm chasing.....

fitz..
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Sweetwater on June 05, 2011, 07:25:36 PM
Keep it black and white, no grey areas.


That's is the problem in this case paul, too much grey, or rather a lack of black and white. There should be no room for interpretation, however that is exactly what is happening. Hence I raised the topic here to highlight it.

The minister's office pulls together a TAG group for specific purposes. Some may offer good or bad advice, some have their own agendas to push, some may or may not look here. If they do, then they would see that attention is needed in regard to what is trying to be achieved to a closed seasn to the wording involved to express that intent.
A full review of the Act is immenent, this is the time to get a general consensus among recreational anglers. Even though I might play devils advocate to draw both sides or extremes of a point out, it is required to get the full story. Sitting in a like minded circle patting each other on the back will achive no change. When we can clearly see that change IS needed.
I will certainly be making written submission for change within the review, discussions like this help me to get an understanding of what people are looking for.

Cheers,

Fitz..
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Sweetwater on June 05, 2011, 07:38:02 PM
The advice was not from a fisheries enforcement officer, personally I believe it is wrong.

I also reckon the Fisheries Enforcement Officer who caught you sitting on top of a school of bass pulling them in one after another would just about spit his teeth laughing if you told him the reason you were breaching a law was because you had a verbal interpretation of the rules from someone in the Department who was not an enforcement officer.

I believe it was just a discussion amongst a group of fisho's and a personal opinion from the gentlemen concerned. (not the opinion of the Department) , very few people are empowered to make public statement on behalf of any government department. (Which I dont think he was intending to do, as said, just his opinion)

Please no one go spouting this as gospel, or stating they have a statement from someone in authority, or god forbid mention his name - you'll only get the poor buggers but kicked. (Whether he is right or wrong, and he is a good bloke who helps us out a lot).

Extract from the current guide, similar to the attachment  Fitzy found on the web site, attached.

The advice was from a fisheries employee in a public arena (not a closed or top secret group), actually three of them, which differs from other advice. Yep, they're all good guys for sure & they're my mates as well. That makes no difference to the point at hand.... For anyone reading; any implication that advice offered and/or discussions had at this meeting were of a secretive nature, or that there's two sets of rules (double standards) is not the case.

What I'm trying to point out by this, there are interpretations of rules being put out there by people on the same team; clear definitions are lacking on what is obviously wishy washy wording. I would suggest that any thought of prosecution in this regard is well nigh a waste of time.

Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: bushwacker on June 05, 2011, 07:48:02 PM
Specifically in regard to what Steve?

fitz..

Well how abouts for arguements sake if anyone has posted a reply to this or will to highlight what a few Pro's and a few Con's to the said change of allowing bass to be targeted in the said closed season.

At the moment i see both sides of the story . I see the point that not all bass in fact the good majority cant make it back up ( not so much down ) from brackish water (another point in itself)

Pro New change

I also see a different point that yes bass do need a bit of a break to keep the fishing on par and give them a chance to grow, We dont want to flog them all out and make them lure shy do we ?

Con New change

Also think what may happen in the future to the in place wiers and fishways that stop travel up and down stream. If a be all to end all or even something that does give them a chance is put into place do we want to change the rules after that back to what was already in place ?

Give it a think, I am in no way saying im right or wrong.

Steve
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: rayke1938 on June 05, 2011, 08:04:41 PM
I would really like to see the ruling expressed officially in writing otherwise we are just going to have a rehash of the previous bunfight that Anita gave her opinion on.
"You will notice that attempting to catch fish is included in the definition of take and therefore my understanding is that if someone is attempting to take a species of fish during a closed season they would be in breech of the regulation."
What is the difference between attempting to catch and targeting?
Would not we be better off defining areas such as above Mt crosby in with the sip dams where you are allowed to catch bass all year round rather than some opinion that will allow immoral persons to flog the guts out of a fishery .
Cheers
Ray

Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: BG on June 05, 2011, 08:07:37 PM
Fitzy there is a lot of discussion above and many good comments from 8 or 10 people.

Then there is the couple of hundred fellas who just want to get out there and fish, more interested in the colour of the skirts on our Spinnerbaits next time we go out.  If the fisheries say it is a no go area we will go some where else.

Its only for short while. And let those big Bass go to the rusty water and have some fun.

Regards Gordon
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Sweetwater on June 05, 2011, 08:35:21 PM
Ok, I'll cut to the chase.......

Q- What is the purpose of a closed season?
A- To protect fish from exploitation when they school up during spawning; to allow them to spawn & to deprive anglers of an unfair advantage at spawning sites at this time.

It was brought in with the intent of protecting wild fish. Since then we've introduced stocked fish to the equation. There has been no genetic diversity considerations to the fish chosen for breeding of these stocked fish, no industry wide monitoring, limited guidelines.
Bass is Qld are stocked in impoundments only (weirs and dams) wholey & soley for recreational fishing enhancement, they are not stocked for conservation purposes, hence the above is allowed to continue.

From a management persective, it is desirable that stocked bass genetics do not enter a wild population, however in most cases the horse has bolted...eg Brisbane, Pine, Nerang and possibly the Albert / Logan.

Also, the vast majority of bass stocked in Qld are purchased with public monies, be that from SIPS or RFEP funds given to stocking groups in the form of grants, to improve recreational fishing opportunities.

Another point to consider is that bass have been translocated north of their natural range. The general consensus is that Australian Bass' northern limits is the Noosa River. However bass have been stocked north of Noosa in several rivers eg, Mary, Gergory, Kolan, Burnett and their many tributaries.

**************

So where the underlying question is: Why protect stocked bass, purchased with public monies, with no genetic value with a closed season that prevents the public from fishing for these bass for 25% of the year?

Should we protect genuine wild genetic pockets of bass?
Hell yes!! If we as anglers are genuinely worried about the generic future of Australian Bass, we should be screaming for total & permanent closed waters in places like Noosa River that are as yet not impacted by restocking. Do we or are we calling for this? Hardly.... So the double standard is actually quite endemic. We want our cake and to eat it too!!  :OMG

What is the answer? Well in my oppinion, the closed season is a great thing for genuinely wild fish. For fish upstream of weirs and dams, my thoughts are the closed season is counter productive, not to mention bloody rediculous ao anglers should not only be allowed to target & take bass up from barriers years round, should be encouraged to do so the closer to the salt these fish get.

anyone want to offer answers to those above? I'd love to hear your thoughts.  :thumbsup

Cheers,

Fitz..

Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Sweetwater on June 05, 2011, 08:41:24 PM
I would really like to see the ruling expressed officially in writing otherwise we are just going to have a rehash of the previous bunfight that Anita gave her opinion on.
"You will notice that attempting to catch fish is included in the definition of take and therefore my understanding is that if someone is attempting to take a species of fish during a closed season they would be in breech of the regulation."
What is the difference between attempting to catch and targeting?
Would not we be better off defining areas such as above Mt crosby in with the sip dams where you are allowed to catch bass all year round rather than some opinion that will allow immoral persons to flog the guts out of a fishery .
Cheers
Ray

I couldn't agree more Ray, hence the timing is right with a review coming soon.

I've been asking for clear definition from Fisheries & even FFSAQ (claim to be representative body  :o ) for close to a decade as to what the difference is between a weir and a dam.... Apparently its too hard to get consensus. This is important for things like admission to the SIPS or for defining impounded waters such as the topic we're on now.

Its easier to tackle this by location, simply add to the excluded list; Mt Crosby Weir, Caboolture Weir, All waters north of the Noosa River etc. Thaty way true wild fish get protection & anglers can still fish for bass. In effect, the best of both worlds.

fitz..
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Sweetwater on June 05, 2011, 08:48:38 PM
Fitzy there is a lot of discussion above and many good comments from 8 or 10 people.

Then there is the couple of hundred fellas who just want to get out there and fish, more interested in the colour of the skirts on our Spinnerbaits next time we go out.  If the fisheries say it is a no go area we will go some where else.

Its only for short while. And let those big Bass go to the rusty water and have some fun.

Regards Gordon

Gordon, you're fine to go fishing with a spinnerbait on your rod anywhere you could 2 weeks ago. If you want to fish the Pine, Brisbane, Nerang, Logan, etc etc etc you jolly well go for it mate. If someone asks you what your chasing.. tell them "Fish mate".
Part of the reason for the discussion is relly more about an ingrained attitude of bass anglers that we're holier than thou. You don't see these discussions around barra or cod closed season... Funny that......  :-\ 

Skirt color? How long is piece of string mate, but hopefully the color that I have on at the time is the best.

fitz..
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Brett Guy on June 05, 2011, 08:54:07 PM
Unfortunately Fitzy. Once the horse has bolted, as you put it it is virtually impossible in reality for the average fisho to differentiate between wild and stocked bass. If there is no impassable barrier downstream then there is not always a way of telling whether a fish is wild or not. Why don't people just avoid Bass is brackish water. They are not stretched over a large area so if you get some when chasing other fish then move.
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Sweetwater on June 05, 2011, 09:00:02 PM
Unfortunately Fitzy. Once the horse has bolted, as you put it it is virtually impossible in reality for the average fisho to differentiate between wild and stocked bass. If there is no impassable barrier downstream then there is not always a way of telling whether a fish is wild or not. Why don't people just avoid Bass is brackish water. They are not stretched over a large area so if you get some when chasing other fish then move.

G'Day Brett.

Only closed season in brackish water. That's  a very good point, simple and constructive. That's what I'm looking for   :thanks

C'Mon guys, lets get this to a point where we can deliver this to fisheries as a recommendation for change.  :youbeauty

fitz..
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: bushwacker on June 05, 2011, 09:01:16 PM
Knowing ignorance is no excuse, The fact that nearly 80% of the people that i talk to while out and about do not even know the bass closed season existed or what it entaild.

Another arguement for a later date pending.

Steve
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: StevenM on June 05, 2011, 09:14:38 PM
Knowing ignorance is no excuse, The fact that nearly 80% of the people that i talk to while out and about do not even know the bass closed season existed or what it entaild.


How true is that. And there are those that know that continue to target them

For me I will leave them alone for the 3 months, as there are more than enough other fish and places to play with. Why? its the current law. I agree that there are places that this law should be lifted, such as above weirs but until then ......

I am with you Paul. Chasing some pinks in the rust water next week end. :thumbsup
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Sweetwater on June 05, 2011, 09:16:39 PM
Knowing ignorance is no excuse, The fact that nearly 80% of the people that i talk to while out and about do not even know the bass closed season existed or what it entaild.

Steve

Agreed..........  :'(
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Sweetwater on June 05, 2011, 09:23:30 PM
How true is that. And there are those that know that continue to target them

For me I will leave them alone for the 3 months, as there are more than enough other fish and places to play with. Why? its the current law. I agree that there are places that this law should be lifted, such as above weirs but until then ......

I am with you Paul. Chasing some pinks in the rust water next week end. :thumbsup

Same as you Steve, I won't be fishing for them in any river, however I know full well I can do if I want to.

Knowing something is wrong, or rather not quite right and not trying to fix it is not going to get it changed. If enough people / groups put in similar submissions then change should happen.

cheers,

fitz..
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: bushwacker on June 05, 2011, 10:16:28 PM
closed season on brackish water is about the closest thing to a way out / alternative i can see remotely possible .

How would that go with bream coming in more in the cooler months ? The same fishing basics are used for both .. Would it be like the closed season on cod or no take species just release them as quickly as you can if one does pop up as by catch ?

Most rivers and creeks have a defined barrier between fresh and where the brackish can reach, would as many of these be identified as possible ? and considered the boundary ?

Steve
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: dinodadog on June 06, 2011, 06:23:35 AM
Problem with this situation not being black or white is that its like watching a sporting game its up to the refs own interpretation of the rules. One says its OK and the next one says no, I think Ray is on the money when its safe to fish is when its in writing. We would all like to keep fishing the way we have lately we have had a ball.

Dino
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Bracey on June 06, 2011, 06:41:11 AM
Fitzy, I have been thinking about this since last Saturday since the meeting and the brackish water thing isn't so black and white. If the certain river or creek system gets a huge influx of fresh water from a good run off of rain that brackish water will extend further into the salt and leaving some spawning Bass in limbo. Some will be left in the freesh while some will head further out to the salt.

I'd be more inclined to safe our real Wild Bass populations by a closed water clause for many areas when they are spawning. Similar to one area I know of, where any fishing apparatus is band all year round through this section of the creek.

Now that is black and white!

Just my thoughts and angle on it, as mentioned above there are many places to be named. And the purists can still choose not to target these fish in other areas during the closed season.

Dave
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: aussiebasser on June 06, 2011, 06:59:03 AM
With a hatchery bordering the Noosa River and run-off from it going into a creek which feeds into the Noosa River, I doubt that we could now call it a truely wild fishery either.  As for the definition of "take" I can't see the average person confusing "take" with "target".  I'm sure common sense would apply, and if a fisheries officer did charge someone with "taking" Bass during a closed season, and they had no fish in their possession, I can't see a Judge or Magistrate upholding the charge.  It's a bit like that old joke where the woman says she wasn't fishing and the fisheries officer says she could have been, because she has all the equipment, and she says she'll have him charged with rape, and he says he didn't touch her and she says but he could have because he had all the equipment. 
Sadly the real issue with this does not really concern most of the people who will read this here.  A few hundred people practicing catch and release fishing for escaped stocked Bass are not what is causing the problem.  It's the people taking more than their bag limit, using nets and set-lines and abusing the fishery that are the problem, unfortunately they are not the people likely to read a forum such as this.
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Brett Guy on June 06, 2011, 07:54:43 AM
With a hatchery bordering the Noosa River and run-off from it going into a creek which feeds into the Noosa River, I doubt that we could now call it a truely wild fishery either.  As for the definition of "take" I can't see the average person confusing "take" with "target".  I'm sure common sense would apply, and if a fisheries officer did charge someone with "taking" Bass during a closed season, and they had no fish in their possession, I can't see a Judge or Magistrate upholding the charge.  It's a bit like that old joke where the woman says she wasn't fishing and the fisheries officer says she could have been, because she has all the equipment, and she says she'll have him charged with rape, and he says he didn't touch her and she says but he could have because he had all the equipment. 
Sadly the real issue with this does not really concern most of the people who will read this here.  A few hundred people practicing catch and release fishing for escaped stocked Bass are not what is causing the problem.  It's the people taking more than their bag limit, using nets and set-lines and abusing the fishery that are the problem, unfortunately they are not the people likely to read a forum such as this.



And if they do they won't care anyway. One of the failings of most fisheries rules is that they only stop the honest people. The ones that self impose their own limits that are often far stricter than the official regulations. Those that want to kill will kill regardless. I spose at least that black and white laws at least allow these people to be prosecuted.
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: BG on June 06, 2011, 08:39:50 AM
What Bracey mentioned reminded me of an article I read of an old NZ bloke.

He lived on a little bay and over the years he saw the fish stocks reduced to a dangerous level.  Lobbied the fisheries for over 10 years until they heard and colsed this bay off, totally.

Within 3 years, there were some amazing results, (thats a long time in the life of a fish.)   The fish population in the bay came back and spilled over into surrounding ' fishable ' areas and even the pros enjoyed the benefits.

I know this is a totaly different ball game but being in a river has benefits that a bay doesn't have.

A section could be closed off as a sawning/rest area for fish because the fishing pressure is going to increase as more of us buy Kayaks.

This could have a down side by giving the pest fish a spot to breed up also, but we can sort this easily by having a Talapia busting day.  When you target Talapia you rarely catch Bass.

Some thing to consider.

Gordon
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: bushwacker on June 06, 2011, 11:09:39 AM
Another thing to think of is if even a few certain rivers get closed to bass fishing and people actually listen what will happen to those withing reach of the people that used to fish the closed river. I dont think choosing only certain rivers to close would work as the surrounding rivers would get more pressure than usual and may be flogged out far too much.

Imagine if everyone from noosa that fished went to the brissy river when they wanted a bass fix ... im sure there would be a few clashes along the lines.

I could be just dribbling too .....  :o

Steve
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: elops on June 06, 2011, 11:19:14 AM
From the definition of "Take" as stated in the Fisheries Act 1994.

(b) attempt to , gather , kill or obtain from water or land ; and

(c) land (from a boat or in another way) bring ashore or tranship.

No matter how the the act is worded now or in the future it will not stop people from catching Bass in closed waters as fishing is still permitted.
Impossible to prove beyond reasonable doubt in court that anyone catching and releasing Bass is breaking the law unless they admit that they are attempting to catch them AND know they can not do so , not likely to happen.
The only legislation which would achieve this would be a total closure of Bass spawning areas, is this likely to be implemented in any SEQ waterways ?
A case could and should be raised for the Noosa with a total ban on any stocking in the catchment and a halt to the current net fishery in the system during the spawning season. 

cheers
Steve

Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: BrisBassMan on June 06, 2011, 11:51:16 AM
It only matters what they(QLD Fisheries) can prove.  You can have the rules and regs but unless the Fisherman has a bass in the bag they can always say I'm not targeting bass at all.  So people are still gonna fish for them in the rivers during closed season and so long as they say I'm fishing for Bream or something like that QLD Fisheries have got nothing.

I'm happy to leave them alone.   
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: BG on June 06, 2011, 05:17:44 PM
I would imagine it might add up to a couple of km of the river that is a no go zone.

If that were the case in all the rivers that are Bass breeding territory I think we could handle it.

The signs we see up around the head waters of the Mary catchment that explain the need to protect the MR Cod.  There are serious penalities mentioned there and only the brave would fish dare fish those streams.

A very clear and low cost way of getting the message out.  A bunch of signs along a section of the river and note when you get your next reminder for your fishing permit

Gordon
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: bushwacker on June 06, 2011, 05:47:05 PM
Gordon.

Even a sign at the majority of access points to rivers and creeks and parks about rules and reg's on rec fishing so that ignorance becomes less of an excuse if not one at all.

Im sure someone would be up in arms about the cost of additional signage tho.

Steve
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Novice on June 06, 2011, 06:35:05 PM
Another thing to think of is if even a few certain rivers get closed to bass fishing and people actually listen what will happen to those withing reach of the people that used to fish the closed river. I dont think choosing only certain rivers to close would work as the surrounding rivers would get more pressure than usual and may be flogged out far too much.

Imagine if everyone from noosa that fished went to the brissy river when they wanted a bass fix ... im sure there would be a few clashes along the lines.

I could be just dribbling too .....  :o

Steve

Upstream of Mt Crosby , most days since the flood in the Brisbane , fishing for Bass , you are the only one out there . You may spot others having a go on the weekends , but I wouldn't call it as being flogged out .  There's 60kms of river between Wivy and the Mt Crosby weir , and it seems the only fellas doing the wrong thing are the ones in the over loaded petrol dingys trolling the river .

Cheers,
Dave.

Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: Novice on June 06, 2011, 06:56:30 PM
What is the answer?

I'd be more inclined to safe our real Wild Bass populations by a closed water clause for many areas when they are spawning. Similar to one area I know of, where any fishing apparatus is band all year round through this section of the creek.

Now that is black and white!

Dave

A total ban on all fishing in bass spawning areas . These areas should be chosen though on the merits of whether the system is polluted from stocked fish and the overall health of that spawning area ( i.e. how successful is the recruitment from the lower Brisbane and Bremer rivers? )

Would we all have our knickers in a knot if we had WORKING fishways on the barriers in our rivers?

Cheers,
Dave.
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: 2Dogs on June 06, 2011, 07:08:14 PM
The easy answer is to change the wording to:

Bass Closed season July 1 to August 31. No take, no target. All Qld waters from border to Noosa upstream to the first man made barrier. All waters north of noosa river are almost all stocked (or polluted) so should not have a closed season.

Clear and easy  :thumbsup
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: Brad on June 06, 2011, 08:03:18 PM
The easy answer is to change the wording to:

Bass Closed season July 1 to August 31. No take, no target. All Qld waters from border to Noosa upstream to the first man made barrier. All waters north of noosa river are almost all stocked (or polluted) so should not have a closed season.

Clear and easy  :thumbsup

No take, No Target still won't work or change a thing.

As already said by others nobody & absolutely nobody can prove a fisher is targeting bass unless they admitted they were.

I can go bass fishing tomorrow if I wanted but claim to be targeting forkies or spanglies & that can't be regulated against without banning fishing in an area full stop. I don't claim to have any idea on the solution tho ???

Brad
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: rayke1938 on June 06, 2011, 08:04:53 PM
Gordon.

Even a sign at the majority of access points to rivers and creeks and parks about rules and reg's on rec fishing so that ignorance becomes less of an excuse if not one at all.

Im sure someone would be up in arms about the cost of additional signage tho.

Steve
The problem with signage is that the "crooks" rip them down such as the ones that used to be at luscome weir or they become targets for the tagging hoons.
My personal opinion is that the majority people who are breaking the law are aware of the regulations and believe that they can do what they like or come up with their own smart arssed interpretation of the regulations to justify their activities.
Re the biodiversity of the gene pool of stocked fish I thought that this was part of the criteria that stocking groups look at when soursing fingerlings.
I can remember a thread on this subject and think that it was said that Bill Proctor sourses his brood stock from as far afield as the richmond and clarence catchments and he changes his brood stock frequently.
I also believe that there is a program where fingerlings are released into most streams in SEQ so in fact there is probably no pure strain of wild fish anywhere in QLD.
The more you look into it the harder it becomes.
Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: 2Dogs on June 06, 2011, 09:31:20 PM
I can remember a thread on this subject and think that it was said that Bill Proctor sourses his brood stock from as far afield as the richmond and clarence catchments and he changes his brood stock frequently.
Cheers
Ray

That could be as bad as 2nd generation hatchery bred local bass couldn't it? potentially bad for locally distinct traits.
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: aussiebasser on June 07, 2011, 06:50:56 AM
Queensland Stocking Groups, operating under the SIP scheme have never in any way operated under a system of rejuvinating river fish stocks.  Their role is purely to stock fish into impoundments to cater to recreational fishers to maintain a put and take fishery.  If SIP stockers see themselves as saving a species from extinction they need to take a very long look at the process.
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: elops on June 07, 2011, 11:35:11 AM
Though impoundments were never stocked for conservation or supplementation of wild Bass stocks this has occurred. In some streams on a massive scale, entrainment of large numbers of stocked fish was inevitable. Though the effects of this upon within-population variability of the remnant populations downstream and nearby streams was known to biologists since the late eighties and well understood by the mid nineties it was either overlooked or ignored. Has this caused irreversible damage to genetic diversity of Bass populations in SEQ ? nobody knows as no genetic studies have ever been done. 

cheers
Steve.
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: Brad H on June 07, 2011, 05:26:29 PM
A lot has been mentioned about upstream of first barrier/Weir/Dam and a lot of references to Mt Crosby Weir.
When Brisbane Valley Anglers submitted their Stocking Management Plan to stock the river above Mt Crosby, the Stocking part of DPI Fisheries, considered it a Riverine Impoundment, which apparently covers all weirs with a natural flow component, as opposed to a Dam which can regulate the outflow.
It would be interesting to hear if the Fisheries regulatory arm, would make of that 'description' and would it then be added to the 'open' waters like the BIG impoundments.

Brad
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: PMC on June 07, 2011, 06:31:45 PM
 Alot of replies getting off subject
Fitz, Closed season in all tidal areas, downstream of weir or structure, any area that a fish has an opportunity to procreate,
How about that big word
No fishing full stop
That way, if someone is fishing in that area, they know they shouldnt be there
Why make grey areas, people will argue their point of right,? forever while there is a grey area
Give the fish a spell, both remnant and wild in some areas, that is how it is, and its not going to change
Who is going to lose if the river is closed for a couple of months?
Who is going to lose a job?
Is anyones livelyhood affected if the river is closed?

Are there big fat Wivenhoe Bass, Hinze Bass, Somerset Bass positioning around the paddock?
Marron Bass, Moogerah Bass

Give the river a spell,
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: BG on June 07, 2011, 06:34:42 PM
Steve I wouldn't worry about genetic diversity too much.  Look at the Australian population.  Some good areas some bad.

A little hickup along the way.  Finally survival of the fittest will win out in the end.  It always has.

Gordon

Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: aussiebasser on June 07, 2011, 07:07:05 PM
Paul, are you saying to stop all fishing in the Brisbane, Coomera, Nerang, Logan, Albert, Maroochy, Mooloolah, Caboolture, Pine, Noosa and every other river on the South East Coast?  Where do you draw the line, upstream of the Storey Bridge?  Upstream of the Highway of the Nerang and Coomera?  Upstream of the Highway on the Pine?  This idea would be totally unrealistic and would cause a bigger uproar then the famous Green Zones.
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: bushwacker on June 07, 2011, 07:40:29 PM
Paul, are you saying to stop all fishing in the Brisbane, Coomera, Nerang, Logan, Albert, Maroochy, Mooloolah, Caboolture, Pine, Noosa and every other river on the South East Coast?  Where do you draw the line, upstream of the Storey Bridge?  Upstream of the Highway of the Nerang and Coomera?  Upstream of the Highway on the Pine?  This idea would be totally unrealistic and would cause a bigger uproar then the famous Green Zones.

Agreed
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: PMC on June 08, 2011, 05:42:11 AM
Fitzy asked for peoples opinions
I can go fishing plenty other places
Not into arguing, debate on forums, you blokes can do that
Identify the places Bass breed
Signpost it
Go somewhere else to fish
Black and white
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: bushwacker on June 08, 2011, 07:05:45 AM
This is boiling down to a matter of opinions . It would be a shame to see it come between people with the same best interest at heart for the same fish.

Its definitely something that wont be settled within a few weeks.

Told you it would need allot of thought Fitzy no offence.

Steve
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: aussiebasser on June 08, 2011, 07:17:32 AM
Fitzy asked for peoples opinions
I can go fishing plenty other places
Not into arguing, debate on forums, you blokes can do that
Identify the places Bass breed
Signpost it
Go somewhere else to fish
Black and white

You've identified the biggest issue here.

"Identify where Bass breed"

Is there an area in the Brisbane River where they breed?  Or the Pine?  Are we protecting fish, and stopping recreational angling for nothing?  There is no Black and White on this issue it's one big grey area.

As for fishing somewhere else, what about the average city dwellers who take their kids to the jetties at Jindalee, St. Lucia, Indooroopilly, West End, Bulimba, Hawthorne etc.  Do we stop them from this activity for 3 months of the year?  What about the impact on the Nerang River?  How many fisheries officers would need to be employed to enforce this?  Is there really any point in trying to let the corrupted gene pools in the Nerang, Brisbane and Pine breed at the cost of banning all fishing in the system? 
I would suggest that the law should stand as it is, apart from making the Noosa River a "no take" area for Bass.  (Even that is arguable with the genetic problems introduced by having a hatchery on the edge of one of the last remaining "natural" Bass populations.) 
Constructive discussion is not arguing.
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: Brett Guy on June 08, 2011, 07:28:10 AM
It's pretty obvious from everything that has been said that it will be very difficult to actually impose a ban on Bass fishing while they spawn so how about a No take rule and spend some money on educating people why they should avoid targeting Bass in the salt during winter months. Encourage the idea of moving on when a gathering of spawning bass is found. The average weekend fisho is not really going to have any adverse affect on spawning bass so the odd one caught by them won't be a problem. Signs at access point and on jettys explaining the situation and encouraging careful release of Bass would have an effect that could really help
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: Pete on June 08, 2011, 11:50:24 AM
Hi All

From what i have seen and observed , these type of closed seasons are not worth the paper / signage it's written on , it offers little in the way of protection  , sure it's going to limit the amount of fish taken and that's about it .

I am not fully aware of the make up of Bass , do they have dramas spawing after C/ R   ? 
I know Cod do ,   I would like to see / support  a total closure of any waterway carrying wild  Murray Cod

Pete 
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: aussiebasser on June 08, 2011, 12:40:28 PM
I cannot see a total closure of the entire Murray Darling system being brought in to protect a species which has shown a remarkable come back under the current regulations.  It is the same with Bass, the current system isn't broken, why do we need to change it?
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: Pete on June 08, 2011, 01:28:27 PM
Dale

No need to close down the whole of the MD system , just the areas that hold wild stocks , their gene pool is very important , from what i understand , these wild areas are very  few and far between , the recovery that you speak of is down to heavy stocking .

Pete


Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: aussiebasser on June 08, 2011, 03:01:42 PM
The heavy stocking has already depleted the importance of natural wild stocks.  Can anybody identify where the natural wild stocks are of Bass, Murray Cod, Trout Cod or Barramundi anymore?
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: takrat on June 08, 2011, 03:45:53 PM
It seems to me that the more this is discussed the more we veer off the core subject. Any law is no use unless it is properly policed and that has to begin with fisheries themselves. In Northern NSW we give the bass a break from June 1 to end August. There ARE other freshwater species to target, and of course there is always the rusty water. Most of us have hooked a Bass in water that was virtually full salt so trying divide rivers up into no go zones won't work; too many variables. As far as man made obstacles are concerned they should be either dismantled of fitted with fishways. I do not believe in restocking rivers that are open to the sea either. If a river is so degraded that the fish can't or won't naturally restock then it's a lost cause anyway. Until the issues of riparian vegetation and 19th century farming practices are addressed most of it becomes irrelevant. The Richmond is struggling as are many of the other traditional Bass streams. If we address the unnatural input we should be a long way to remedying the situation. As far as closed seasons are concerned, nobody likes to get hooked on their honymoon. Leave 'em be.
JD
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: Pete on June 08, 2011, 08:31:22 PM
The heavy stocking has already depleted the importance of natural wild stocks.  Can anybody identify where the natural wild stocks are of Bass, Murray Cod, Trout Cod or Barramundi anymore?

If that were to be the case ,it would be fair to say , a closed season has no real value what so ever , as any fish removed at any time / waterway are easy to replace through stocking

Pete
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: Sweetwater on June 09, 2011, 12:23:44 AM
Awesome discussion folks, I love it. Keep it going, we will come up with a good plan.

Who better than us fishos who have the best interests of our fish & fishing in mind about the fish to come up with a working model to present to fisheries? If we can't, how the hell can we expect anyone else & then who is to blame if we don't? Better than a do-gooder animal rights idealist which could be the alternative.

Keep the suggestions coming folks... C'Mon folks, don't get stressed, offer solutions or alternatives.  :youbeauty

** In a think tank, there are no bad ideas**

Thanks,

fitz..
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: elops on June 09, 2011, 01:27:00 AM
Fitz,
Hope this is along the lines of something definate, much needed and hopefully achievable.
The Noosa is the LAST true wild Bass fishery in SEQ.
The hatchery issues are NOT a factor.
Limited stocking has been done in the Kin Kin Creek catchment of which the majority of fingerlings would have been sourced from the local hatchery, up until 2007 this hatchery sourced broodstock from the Noosa (ironicly collected by the pro netters mostly, who have generations of knowledge of the timing of spawning movements as they targeted them) in 2007 the broodstock was a mix of Noosa fish and entrained Ewen Maddock fish. 2008 ? well we wont go there, 2009 I collected all of the broodstock, a mix of fish from various locations some cultured, some wild, of various sizes and ages. Did the best I could, put a great deal of thought and effort into this. Any fish stocked that came from other hatcheries would have virtually no effect on the Within-Population Variability of the Noosa Bass.
The greatest impact on the Noosa Bass fishery has been the net fishery in the lake, the sight of tonnes of Noosa Bass in Brisbane supermarkets in the late seventies and early eighties was the prime mover for leglisative change. The net fishery continues to this day with Bass still caught as bycatch in ever dwindling numbers.
This has contributed to the decline in numbers far more than any of the issues featured in the media recently.
Here is what we should aim for.

1 A total ban on possession of Bass in the Noosa catchment.

2 A total closure of the net fishery AT LEAST upstream of the narrows in spawning season.

3 A recreational closure upstream of the narrows in spawning season.

4 A total ban on stocking in the Noosa catchement with the exeption of Bass if the fingerlings are produced following strict genetic guidelines.

3 may be contraversial and hard to implement but the Noosa is a legislated "Wild River" for what thats worth.

cheers
Steve.






 
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: rayke1938 on June 09, 2011, 07:57:53 AM
What triggers the spawning season?
 Lenght of day?
Water temp change?
Other factors?
 I fished the hinze a fortnight ago and a couple of the male fish were emitting sperm as I brought them boatside. I dont think it was because they were excited to see me.
Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: childersfish on June 09, 2011, 09:40:45 AM
This is indeed a very interesting topic. I think a closure should be a closure. Nothing is ever black and white and that's where this is tricky. I looked at the idea if you're caught in posession and figured sure if the live well is full your open to prosecution. then I thought well what about the idea of keeping bass in the live well so they don't take the school with them when they leave? then i thought it's possible you hook a Bass as a ranger rocks up..your legally in posession so a goner unless commensense prevails. One thing i wonder about is do Bass reproduce at different times to yellas, silvers and the rest of the freshies? In some countires there was a total ban on all fresh water species for a period of 2 months. That saw the introduction of privately owned dams with stocked fish which you could fish year round. In these countries many fish will reproduce in dams so?
Ultimately my view is a closure will only work when it is a blanket closure for all species of fish (based on me being ignorant of all breeding seasons) in areas (rivers/creeks) where they will naturally reproduce. I would also support, fish being stocked into areas where their numbers are dwindling even if it's due to man made strutures preventing access to the salt to breed. Fish are not only good to catch they also serve a purpose to other animals as food. Though i do support the view that farming practices need to be changed as does the management of rivers. I feel rivers should have a boundary along their entire length even on private land that allows other people access to them. This would open the counrty side to many people which in turn would bring attention to what is happening in these areas, hopefully with the outcome of a better river system?
John
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: Hambone on June 09, 2011, 10:02:22 AM
Hey Guys,
I haven't read all of the posts but I will make this observation...
It appears that many people are not aware of the rules in relation to the closed bass season. The ruling that I saw posted by Anita is correct and you cannot take or attempt to take bass during the closed season. There is no restriction on fishing per se, and no way of preventing people fishing for other species that share the same environment as bass and therefore the incidental or accidental take of bass....
However, the closed season does not apply to bass in the waters upstream of the impoundments listed in the recreational fishing guide...so in those impoundements that have bass stocked in them, you may take and possess you limit of legally sized bass, year round.....If you were to be found downstream of the impounded waters with bass in your possession then you can be sure that there would be some further investigation undertaken by the Boating and Fisheries Patrol.
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: rayke1938 on June 09, 2011, 10:26:34 AM
Some very interesting points eing made but back to original post.
 It would appear it all boils down to two different Deedi employies interupetation of the rules.
 Has anyone or is anyone going to seek a ruling that will apply untill a new set of rules are set.
If the ruling given at Fernvale is correct to be fair to all anglers who enjoy their bass fishing, no matter where, the decision should be widely published and not merely available to readers of fthis website and stocking assns.
Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: aussiebasser on June 09, 2011, 11:44:11 AM
This is how it is currently written on the DPI website:
Tidal Waters:
Quote
Why do we have closed seasons?
Closed seasons (regulated waters) prevent people from fishing at certain times of the year to protect species at vulnerable times in their life cycle, such as during spawning seasons.

Australian bass
A closed season applies to Australian bass throughout Queensland from 1 June to 31 August. See also the section on freshwater closed seasons (Australian bass) for information on taking bass from some fresh water during the closure.


Fresh Water

Quote
Why do we have closed seasons?
Closed seasons prevent people from fishing at certain times of the year to protect species at vulnerable times in their life cycle, such as during spawning seasons.

Australian bass
A closed season applies to Australian bass throughout Queensland from 1 June to 31 August except in and from waterways upstream of Baroon Pocket, Bjelke-Petersen, Boondooma, Borumba, Cania, Cressbrook, Fred Haigh (Lake Monduran), Gordonbrook, Hinze, Lenthalls, Maroon, Moogerah, North Pine, Somerset, Wuruma and Wivenhoe dams; Claude Wharton and Jones weirs; Isis Balancing Storage (Lake Gregory) and Clarendon, Dyer (Bill Gunn Dam) and MacDonald lakes.

Barramundi Throughout the Queensland east coast a closed season applies to barramundi from midday 1 November to midday 1 February, except in and from waterways upstream of Awoonga, Burdekin Falls, Callide, Eungella, Fairbairn, Fred Haigh (Lake Monduran), Kinchant, Koombooloomba, Lenthalls, Peter Faust, Teemburra, Tinaroo and Wuruma dams.

The Gulf of Carpentaria closed season for barramundi in 2009-2013 is:

■midday 25 September 2009 to midday 22 January 2010
■midday 30 September 2010 to midday 26 January 2011
■midday 4 October 2011 to midday 30 January 2012
■midday 7 October 2012 to midday 3 February 2013.
These closures do not apply in East Leichhardt Dam and Belmore, Corella, Julius and Moondarra lakes, and to waterways upstream of these impoundments.

A take and possession limit of one barramundi applies during the closed season in all of the 18 lakes and dams mentioned above. The barramundi may be greater than 120 cm. Recreational fishers may continue to fish in the 18 dams and lakes once they have reached their limit of one barramundi.

Outside of the closed season, in the 18 dams and lakes mentioned above, a take and possession limit of five applies to barramundi that may include one barramundi greater than 120 cm.

It is also prohibited to deliberately target barramundi for catch and release during these closed seasons, as the stress of capture may prevent fish from spawning.

Now why is the last paragraph in the Barramundi rule not present in the Bass rule?

From the Queensland Government, with regard to fisheries, the definition of "take" is"

Quote
“take” fisheries resources includes—
(a) catch, gather, kill or obtain from water or land; and
(b) attempt to catch, gather, kill or obtain from water or land; and
(c) land (from a boat or in another way), bring ashore or tranship;

I've read all of the above and still cannot come to a definitive asnwer on how the current law stands on me casting a Spinnerbait in the mid-Brisbane river this weekend, and I defy anyone to give me that answer, because it is not written there!
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: Sweetwater on June 09, 2011, 06:00:42 PM
If the ruling given at Fernvale is correct to be fair to all anglers who enjoy their bass fishing, no matter where, the decision should be widely published and not merely available to readers of fthis website and stocking assns.
Cheers
Ray

I wouldn't call it a ruling, I'd call it an interpretation.

The problem is that most folks either blissfully unaware, indifferent or couldn't be bothered to do anything. This website & this discussion are both open to all of the public to have a say.



We will soon have a good oportunity to make a submission to get the grey out of the way. It will be another five years after that if action is not taken. I would suggest without submissions, the "no news is good news" or "if it aint broke don't fix it" rules may apply. The regs obviously needs tweaking...

We're all on the same team here, so if we can't work out a viable workable alternative, who can?

I still lean towards the following:

Closed Season for Australian bass

When June 1 - August 31 (unless data suggests it should be different)

Where All waters south of & including Noosa River.

Exceptions
A- All Qld waters north of Noosa River including tributaries of the following river systems Mary, Burnett, Kolan, Gergory, Isis.... , and
B- All waters upstream of first man made barrier on system. (same as current list but with addition of weirs eg Mt Crosby Weir, Luscombe Weir, Berries Lagoon Weir.....
It is also prohibited to deliberately target bass for catch and release during the closed season.



So, a law abiding citizen could not legally target bass in potential spawning water from Noosa in the north to NSW border while obviously stocked fish (upstream of barriers) can be fished for year round.
If and/or when a working fishway were to be retrofitted to a barrier, then these rivers could be removed from both restocking & the closed season applied. (no system should have both IMHO)
Bass are not native to Burnett, Gregory, Kolan etc so should not be protected by closed season, but if needed could specifically name first barrier eg Ben Anderson Barrage etc...

Comments? Additions? Subtractions?

Fitzy..



BTW- Thanks for the comment Hambone.  :youbeauty
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: bushwacker on June 09, 2011, 07:52:15 PM
From this end Fitzy that seems like a pretty reasonable unbiased plan.

I would support that motion.

Steve
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: rayke1938 on June 09, 2011, 08:40:33 PM
Sounds pretty comprehensive to me but Lake Kurwongbah should also be included in exception list.
I am in favour of anything that clearly states the rules with no chance for the bush lawyers to misintererpt.I tried in 1999 to get the act changed with similar wording to the barra regs but one individual peeing into the wind doesnt get far.
 Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: Bracey on June 09, 2011, 09:15:06 PM
I think from memory Ray, Kurwonbah was put up along with Ewen Maddock Dam as an exemption to be reviewed.
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: Sweetwater on June 10, 2011, 12:33:12 AM
I tried in 1999 to get the act changed with similar wording to the barra regs but one individual peeing into the wind doesnt get far.
 Cheers
Ray

The Act or the regs Ray? they're two different things....

Either way, never give up hope of making change mate. One individual may not always get their way, but several may well affect change.  :youbeauty

fitz..
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: rayke1938 on June 10, 2011, 07:36:28 AM
I think it was the act.I wrote to the then minister and just got a namby pamby response  Cannot even remember who the minister was then as I have chucked the letter.
Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: NormGood on June 10, 2011, 09:45:06 AM
The ruling that I saw posted by Anita is correct and you cannot take or attempt to take bass during the closed season.

Tony, the sticking point is really around what "attempt to take" means. At the meeting it was suggested that catching and releasing the fish did not constitute the above.

What say you new and improved guru?

Norm
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: rayke1938 on June 28, 2011, 11:40:45 AM
I have just been speaking to Tony Ham re this subject after emailing Deedi re this issue. He has also sent me a reply in writing that is is nor legal to target bass during closed even if it is only for catch and release purposes.He has given me permission to publish this email.
 Here is his response.
Cheers
Ray
 From:
"Ham, Tony" <Tony.Ham@deedi.qld.gov.au>
Add sender to Contacts
To:
rayke1938@yahoo.com.au

Ray,
I am replying to your enquiry regarding fishing for bass during the closed season.
The original definition that was sent from Anita Ramage is still correct regarding take and I have pasted it here…

This is the definition of “take” as stated in the Fisheries Act 1994

take fisheries resources includes—

(a) catch, gather, kill or obtain from water or land; and

(b) attempt to catch, gather, kill or obtain from water or land; and

(c) land (from a boat or in another way), bring ashore or tranship.

You will notice that attempting to catch fish is included in the definition of take and therefore my understanding is that if someone is attempting to take a species of fish during a closed season they would be in breech of the regulation.

 There is no restriction on fishing for other species during any closed season, however incidental catches of bass (in this instance) must be immediately returned to the water, unharmed.

The closed season for bass does not apply in certain impoundments and bass from these waters may be taken and retained as per usual.

I hope this is of some assistance and should you have any further questions please don't hesitate to contact me.

Regards,
Tony Ham
Manager Recreational Fisheries, SIPS and Fishcare
Industry Development
Fisheries Queensland
a service of the Department of Employment, Economic Development and Innovation
Telephone: 07 3405 6805 Fax: 07 3224 2805
Mobile 0467785787
Email: Tony.Ham@deedi.qld.gov.au 
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: aussiebasser on June 28, 2011, 02:55:46 PM
Well that's it then.  Looks like I'm going fishing in the river this weekend for anything except a Bass.  Not a problem.  The fact that Tony cut and pasted the same information that you posted from Anita on Page one shows that at least two people at DEEDI think alike.  Now, if I'm fishing in the mid-Brisbane river, and I'm approached by a DEEDI inspector (and let's face it, there's not a huge likelyhood of that happening) the onus is then on the inspector to prove that I was "taking" or "attempting to take" an Australian Bass.  With the hot Yellowbelly bite that's happening there at the moment, I'm pretty safe.
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: Hambone on June 28, 2011, 03:19:42 PM
Tony, the sticking point is really around what "attempt to take" means. At the meeting it was suggested that catching and releasing the fish did not constitute the above.

What say you new and improved guru?

Norm
Norm...first let me say that the opinions in this reply are purely my own...and based on my time in enforcement and education activities... 8)

Take and attempt to take are one and the same in term of thw law......the intent is the issue..and of course intent is the issue to be proven....for most enforcement officers, if they found you with a bass in a bucket..then you are probably about to experience some difficulty I would suggest...On the other hand if you are casting a lure and a bass is landed as an incidental catch, you have an obligation to immediately release the fish...and I would suggest that you would not have any problems as a result.

In terms of attempt to take, given that the legislations intent is to protect spawning fish, I would suggest that if you were to hook two bass in a row in the same spot, then you have an obligation to either stop fishing, or move to somewhere else to avoid catching bass. or at least take some action to avoid catching them at least in that spot....The law generally applies as though a reasonable person with no knowledge was looking at the situation...I am of course acutely aware that not every fisher adheres to this type of moral code....that said..I would argue that if I observed someone in a river, continually catching bass and continuing with no change in their behaviour, I could possibly mount a case for targeting bass (or attempting to take)...I say possibly!! ..it all boils down to what convinces a magistrate C:-)

The real question is ... How serious are you about complying with the law....it becomes an ethical question for rec fishers to address...and fishing ethics are the things that we do when we are unobserved by others!!




Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: Sweetwater on June 28, 2011, 05:28:21 PM
Hi Tony,

That is the best reply to this question I've yet seen, thankyou for your input.  :thanks

You mentioned "ethics" & gave a great interpretation, can I use it? Between ethics & encforement we should see well managed fisheries. We all know either or both can be a bit thin at times unfortunately so hopefully where one is lacking the other picks up the shortfall.

*******************

The other part of the topic is the "where" should a closed season apply. What are your thoughts in regard to closed season for bass where all of the fish are stocked or upstream of a barrier (eg upstream of Mt Crosby Weir on Brisbane River), or outside of natural area eg Kolan, Gregory, Burnett, Burrum systems?

Cheers,

Fitzy..
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: StevenM on June 28, 2011, 05:40:47 PM
Thanks for the input Tony
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: rayke1938 on June 28, 2011, 06:46:51 PM
It does really depend on the individual persons ethics whether they continue to fish in waters where breeding bass exist. My beef is not about the person who accidentally catches a bass as by-catch when targeting bream it about people who know where the bass aggregate and continue to hammer them and state I am really fishing for mullet etc. >:(
Cheers
Ray
 
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: Sweetwater on June 28, 2011, 07:38:52 PM
Yep, I had some tackle industry guys call the other day & tell me they caught over 50 bass at one spot on the mid brisbane river this week. Told them its closed season... the answer was that they were fishing for golden perch.

In that case, they're not wild / breeding / spawning fish, rather are stocked fish (mainly escapees from Wivenhoe) so probably should be allowed to fish for them. However the letter of the law says they're breaking the rules by doing this.

Where should ones ethics lie with this scenario? Adhere to a regulation that is obviously wrongly written, ignore it or try to get the regs changed? I'm for the latter.........

fitz..
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: Nativeman on June 28, 2011, 08:44:37 PM
I don't get it....

Just because there has been a huge influx of Bass into the rivers since the Floods everyone wants to target them, all year round.

If there was a drought still in place would there even be a discussion of these rules.

Rules are rules and if you are a responsible recreational fisherman you should tow the line and encourage others to do so.

My views anyway....

Cheers



Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: 2Dogs on June 28, 2011, 08:53:39 PM
I don't get it....

Just because there has been a huge influx of Bass into the rivers since the Floods everyone wants to target them, all year round.

If there was a drought still in place would there even be a discussion of these rules.

Rules are rules and if you are a responsible recreational fisherman you should tow the line and encourage others to do so.

My views anyway....

Cheers

Why protect stocked fish with a closed season & where they can't breed?
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: rayke1938 on June 29, 2011, 07:21:25 AM
All it needs is a rain event so that the weirs overflow and the entrapped fish can progress downstream and if they cannot do this they will be waiting for you on Ist September.
If you believe that some waters should be exempt from the closed season why not write to the minister
Craig Wallace
thuringowa@parliament.qld.gov.au
or his opposition
Mark Robinson.
cleveland@parliament.qld.gov.au.
Mark Robinson seems to be the first Qld polly since Tom Burns to genuinely take an interest in recreational fishing unlike his counterpart the Hon ( CHOKE) Craig Wallace who at best is tardy with his response and when it arrives is a general patronizing form letter without answering any of the questions asked.
Cheers
Ray
 Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: aussiebasser on June 29, 2011, 09:45:55 AM
Is the water quality anywhere in the Brisbane River suitable for Bass to breed?  Where is the salt level suitable?
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: rayke1938 on June 29, 2011, 10:05:30 AM
Not really qualified to answer as I do not know what salinity levels are required and the salinity will vary dependent on rain events etc but I would venture anywhere below Colleges Crossing. Had a reliable report of bass being caught at Goodna,and Port of Brisbane during last week.The one at the port was 42cm and was kept as the angler did not know what it was.
 Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: elops on June 29, 2011, 10:15:35 AM
Good question Dale, the best answer you would get from a fisheries biologist on water quality would be most likely.
Certainly no shortage of food for larvae if they hatch.
They have the whole length of the river to find suitable salinity.
A question which could be answered with some sampling, IF someone would undertake it.

cheers
Steve.
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: aussiebasser on June 29, 2011, 12:41:21 PM
Good question Dale, the best answer you would get from a fisheries biologist on water quality would be most likely.
Certainly no shortage of food for larvae if they hatch.
They have the whole length of the river to find suitable salinity.
A question which could be answered with some sampling, IF someone would undertake it.

cheers
Steve.

and yet a well known hatchery supposedly had problems with breeding due to water quality in their ponds.  Surely the amount of pollutants pumped into the Brisbane River on a daily basis would affect the breeding.
Salinity levels are another thing.  I wonder, how much did putting a bloody great wier across the river at Mt. Crosby affect the salinity. 
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: Hambone on June 29, 2011, 01:21:54 PM
Hi Tony,

That is the best reply to this question I've yet seen, thankyou for your input.  :thanks

You mentioned "ethics" & gave a great interpretation, can I use it? Between ethics & encforement we should see well managed fisheries. We all know either or bath can be a bit thin at times unfortunately so hopefully where one is lacking the other picks up the shortfall.

*******************

The other part of the topic is the "where" should a closed season apply. What are your thoughts in regard to closed season for bass where all of the fish are stocked or upstream of a barrier (eg upstream of Mt Crosby Weir on Brisbane River), or outside of natural area (eg Kolan, Gregory, Burnett, Burrum systems?

Cheers,

Fitzy..

Don't hold back Fitzy, ask me a hard question ;D ;D..

Personally, (and I stress this is my personal opinion) once there is a stocking program in place , practically the wild fish are impossible to seperate from stocked fish, and that is one of the reasons why currently you can keep 2 impoundment caught bass during the closed season...upstram of the listed dams.

In terms of places like the Kolan, that is a different issue.  and in reality I have no short term solution for you here...perhaps if we want to protect "wild" fisheries like the Noosa for instance, it may be that you would have to consider a total fishing ban on that system for the bass spawning season...(again I stress this is not an official position but a personal musing)... That raises another set of major issues of course...but perhaps the issues of optimal salinity areas in the river could be addressed, and then a closure implemented on that basis, could we use a system of floating closures throughout a river...again it's a nightmare when you start these types of discussions, but I would have thought that this would be an excellent opportunity for some brilliant uni student to base a project on :youbeauty....

.Mate the quote is from a training package for Fishcare volunteers so please go ahead and use it...In terms of more enforcement, well that is a two edged sword...some like it and others don't and you can be sure that you never get the balance right  :-\C:-)
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: Nativeman on June 29, 2011, 07:41:41 PM
If you could catch "stocked bass" all year round in a Qld River, over time would there be any left if the white bucket brigade move in?

So who would restock the fish? A stocking group? Who pays for the fingerlings- The people that pay for their Sips in the dams?

You may as well have a SIPS for rivers that contain bass too.

Alternative keep the closed season and encourage goverment to put in suitable and workable fish ladders on the weirs on our rivers so as the bass can breed naturally.

Cheers



Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: Sweetwater on June 29, 2011, 10:44:00 PM
There's no reason why the SIP can't be applied to weirs. I've been begging someone to give me a fair & reasonable definition as to what is the difference between a dam & a weir for years.... And besides, its called SIP not SDP. "I" as in impoundment. A weir is an impoundment so why not. Nobody from representative/lobby groups (read FARTSAQ), FMAC (prior to its demise) or fisheries has been able to move this forward from a discussion point, and until then nothing will happen.

I wrote a draft check list for all involved on the then SIP committee to use as a starting point & still nothing happened.........   This would be fixed quick smart in NSW or Vic. Disappointing for sure  :walkplank

Cheers,

Fitzy.. 
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: 2Dogs on June 30, 2011, 06:58:31 PM
Having a closed season for stocked bass upstream of weirs is like having a really good road & closing it for 3 months.
Bass are paid for with public money, for the purpose of recreational fishing. Why have it the them isolated for ¼ of the year for no reason? A closed season is there to protect spawning bass. It's almost univerally agreed that it's not desirable for these fish to breed due to unknown genetics.
It's a waste...... Maybe make it a zero take to keep everyone happy.
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: rayke1938 on June 30, 2011, 07:30:56 PM
I am yet to be convinced that such a thing as a wild bass exists and as most breeders rotate and replace their brood stock there is possibly more bio diversity in their fingerlings than in the so called wild bass in the Noosa catchment  that, apart from escaped stocked fish that have migrated into their waters, have been inbreeding for  years.
I also wonder if there has been any recruitment in that area due to the presence of chemicals from the macadamia industry.
Would we not be better off to bring on some real political pressure to either remove or redesign with effective fishladders the offending weirs?
 Cheers
 Ray
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: aussiebasser on July 01, 2011, 06:55:54 AM
A good sentiment Ray, but do you have any idea of the cost of a workable fish ladder for Mt. Crosby weir?  The current State and Federal parliaments are bankrupting the country now, they can't keep roads repaired, or essential services running, how will they fund a very, very expensive fish ladder that may or may not work on Australian Bass.  Our current fish ladders were copied from European and American designs.  Unfortunately our Bass go downstream to breed and don't have the drive to force their way upstream, Salmanoids are the opposite.  We don't know if putting in a very expensive fish ladder will convince the Bass to travel back upstream.  An awful lot of research needs to go into it before the first one is built otherwise we'll just have a few more white elephants like the recycled waterpipe to Wivenhoe.  Sadly we have to admit that we, us humans, have ruined the Bass population in SEQ over the last 200 years, that is not something we can reverse overnight, if at all.  I can't fish for them for 3 months, fair enough, stupid law and unenforcable if you are catch and release fishing.  I'll just keep doing what I've been doing for nearly 10 years.  I'll fish the mid Brisbane river for "fish" and release what I catch.  If an inspector wants to walk the bank alongside me while I drift downstream in my yak and try to prove in court that I was specifically there to "take" Bass, good luck to him. :thumbsup
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: takrat on July 01, 2011, 09:57:35 PM
The fish "ladder" on the upper Tweed wier is working well. I've seen plenty of Bass moving in both directions there. But as far as a workable plan for targeting Bass in any enclosed waters where thwey have no access to get downstream, as far I'm concerned that constitutes an impoundment.
John
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: takrat on July 01, 2011, 10:02:46 PM
Dale that water quality in the hatchery ponds was due to it being more concentrated in the ponds as opposed to being in a larger body of water ie a river. What do we know about reports of 2 headed Bass in the Noosa?
John
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: rayke1938 on July 02, 2011, 08:20:47 PM
RE fishladder for Mount Crosby.
Do bass have different requirements to those ladders that successfully work for yellas and cod that are successfully being built on the inland waterways by the Murray Darling Alliance?
Especially with the carp entrapment modification in one of the latest posts.
I also note the working ladder in the Tweed.
Another alternative could be similar to the fish "lift" in use at the new Hinze dam where the fish wishing to migrate upstream are entrapped and the unwanted species such as carp and tilapia are culled and only the wanted species are transported upstream of the dam wall. Whilst this system does not allow downward migration it would be better than the current ladder.
I do not think that funding is the problem to solving the difficulties with Mt Crosby and other redundant weirs it is the political motivation and that is something that we can all do something about.
 Cheers
Ray
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: aussiebasser on July 04, 2011, 01:07:30 PM
Dale that water quality in the hatchery ponds was due to it being more concentrated in the ponds as opposed to being in a larger body of water ie a river. What do we know about reports of 2 headed Bass in the Noosa?
John

It's a bit hard to read, but if you google 2 headed Bass Noosa River, you find a few links.  I saw it on the Internet so it must be true.

Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: pills on July 06, 2014, 12:17:13 AM
The more I read about this, the more confusing it gets. Had several differing opinions from different sources myself. Just going to renew my sip permit and hit the dams, if I need a bass fix!  :youbeauty
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: UBK on July 06, 2014, 08:08:15 AM
I don't see how it's confusing, I am going to abide by their new laws and hit up bass in the non tidal reaches :) probably print a copy of the changed legislation and keep on me however.
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season?
Post by: aussiebasser on July 06, 2014, 02:02:34 PM
QFBP did a presentation and there is no issue at all with the new rule changes, also not sure why this old post had to be dredged up.  If you are fishing in non-tidal waters you're good to go.
Title: Re: Green light on fishing for bass during closed season
Post by: dirvin21 on July 22, 2014, 03:47:32 AM
I recon it comes down to the individual to be at peace with their own conscience...Fishing for spawning bass in a wild river (that is unstocked & unregulated system) is poor form.


thats how I see it, I could easily target bass during the closed season and claim them as by-catch but I choose not to for the above reason