Barra leaders ?

[Member]

Depends on the location. Awoonga I normally start with 30lb, but have gone as light as 15. Lake Monduran or Proserpine (in tiger country) 30-60lb. Wild fish 30lb.

But it all depends on the country, in tight water where I suspect big fish, I upgrade a bit, but if in open water I like to keep it lighter for better castability.


In saying the above, I learnt a very good lesson while serving my time (for want of a better term) fishing with Harro years ago.  He taught that the harder you pull, the harder a fish will commonly run. So if you're running extra heavy duty leader/line/drag a big barra will commonly hit the afterburners. If you go easy on them, they sometimes reciprocate. The compelling moment for me was when I had a horse barra on & it ran into snags, Harro had called for me to free spool on previous occasions (which I didn't do & got blown away) & on this occasion I did as told & was amazed to see this barra stop dead in its tracks.    This allowed us to chase the barra into the snags on the Minn Kota to get back into direct contact with it & resume on 1:1 terms.
In a nut shell, if a fish feels lots of pull, the fish will give lots back. Lighter pressure from lighter drags can often give the same results in a fight. In tight country with big fish I've seen 200lb leader destroyed so going heavy duty isnt always the answer. The advantage of staying a bit lighter is that you can cast alot longer and more accurately thus giving more hookups & your arm is better at days end.

It is possibly one of the hardest things to learn to do. The natural reaction is to lock up harder when a fish is about to get into a snag; to free spool a fish in this situation takes a some re-programing of the thumbs....

BTW- it works on other species as well. 

Thanks for the lesson Harro. 

fitz..

[Member]

I ended up sticking with Jinkai Plus in 80lb & used double mono crimps ( Yozuri crimp tool ) to connect lures & slim beauty to connect to braid - I will have to perfect those wind on however as I believe you can't get a neater system.

Thanks Scotto

[Member]

Well Fitz, that lesson from Harro was chanelled through to me via your good self and I still use this technique when required. Free spool is a great tool

Hey, while we are on the subject, I also remember you showing me for the first time quite some time ago at Faust how to throw slack line at a jumping barra and the reasoning behind it. We also used the same technique with surface Bassing at Maroon
I was having trouble keeping large fish on-line when they jumped and it was explained that lots of fish are lost by over-enthusiastic anglers ripping the lures right out of thier open mouths when the fish was in mid flight. There are 2 schools of thought attached to this technique but I guess the trick is to know when the slack line method is best applied.

It is interesting to see in real terms how simple little techniques get passed on ......Thanks Harro

Randall.

[Member]

I'm using Schneider 55lb mono (0.8mm) .......  After a 2 year search trying just about every type leader material & system.   The Schneider is with out a doubt the most abrasion resistent.  From a personal perspective , I have not lost a barra to a worn leader in 18 months since I changed ........ many were before that.
While what Fitz & Harro have said is very true ...... It does require an element of luck & more than a bit of skill  -   but depending on the fish , its mindset and how it reacts - you will be rolling the dice.  Leaders can be easily worn by a lively (jumping) 60cm barra even when fished lightly  -   a big fish with thrashing head shakes on 2kg of drag will do the same.   
So why go to a gun fight with only a pocket knife ........ you just never know what you will hook up with & the last thing you want to be thinking about is will the leader hang in there.     

Chris
 

[Member]

Why use a bazooka when a simple bullet will do..... Over done hardware can significantly detract from castability & flexability (shock absorbing). Have seen gunned up anglers with gear that looks like its more suited to bottom bashing arrive in tiger country and couldn'ty cast a good shadow let alone stand a chance of hooking a fish, all because they couldn't cast 10 feet. Can't land a fish if you can't hook one.   

Each to their own...I've work on charter boats, stacks of the things & I know what system can & does work better, apllied correctly. It doesn't always work, but it's been a god send in some scenarios. If you've not tried it, or can't get your head around trying it, you'll probably remain blissfully unaware. Ignore the advice or learn from & adapt it to your own style.

I mean really, we're only talking barra here. They don't possess super-powers, let's not build them up to be something more than they are here. Pound for pound they are quite average fighters compared to many others.

Regards,

fitz..

[Member]

It would be interesting to poll barra guides and tournament anglers and see  exactly what leader system and poundage that they use.   Mind you diameter is the key (imho) - not breaking strain.
There is no need to build a barra up - the reality is that their sandpaper like mouth is what will do the damage to the leader or the gill rakers..... and yes the harder you pull the faster the wear or easier the leader can be cut .
Keep in mind  , we have a fish that can scuff a leader on a missed strike -  so is it an elephant gun approach ?
I too have caught barra on light leader (my best 106cm on 25lbFC) -  mind you 2 casts later a slightly bigger fish went through that same leader in literally a blink of an eye. ( get a hinge hookup and you could probably land a 120cm barra on 10lb leader)
Using finesse type tactics  ..... downsizing ,  has it's time and place!  -   would I suggest these as a mainstream approach to some inexperienced barra fishoe ? ....... no   
Just like the need to upgrade trebles on lures   ......     - Don't  &   Its roll the dice and hope for the best -    regardless of how hard you pull against a fish and how much drag is applied   -     

Chris

PS -   The lure pictured below had its trebles opened up in a free spool situation at Awoonga recently  ....... finesse presentation meets big fish..     & btw the hooks were upgraded to the maximum the lure could handle without killing the action & allowing the lure to suspend
   

 

[Member]

Chris

PS -   The lure pictured below had its trebles opened up in a free spool situation at Awoonga recently  ....... finesse presentation meets big fish..     & btw the hooks were upgraded to the maximum the lure could handle without killing the action & allowing the lure to suspend

Recon that could be a result of too heavy gear/drag. Reading some info above and in past from the likes of Harro I've caught and seen caught fish with standard hardware. heavy handed tactics give put more strain. Where's that big lake barra dvd where they showed meter+ faust barras getting caught in the sticks on light rods and standard hardware?? It was only shown in a few info nights around the place

[Member]

The video was one Randall did on our trip north before most of the self appointed experts had heard about Impoundment barra.  The fisherman was Fitz who arrived off the plane with his bass gear and proceded to pull this fish from the trees in our first session, I watched it all through the lens of the video while Fitz commentated.  It was a 107, and it was in tiger country.

My first Barra that trip was 73cm and I got him on a Loomis Crankbait CBR903, Abu 2500C and 14lb Fireline with a knotted dog leader.  Anglers are catching fish every day in Faust, Awoonga, Teemburra etc.  on Rex Hunt combo's from Kmart with 15lb mono.  The only trick is that they cannot put enough pressure on the fish to make it go hard, so they lead it slowly to the boat.
For me, I'm not all that concerned about losing the odd fish, although, honestly, I have never lost a Barramundi to a chaffed leader or a straightened hook.  As Fitz said, the most important thing is getting the lure in it's face.

[Member]

Never lost a baramundi to a chaffed leader or straightened hook, really? Thats some good angling all right!
Im a little curious, how many trips do you do a month/year/the last 5 years? How many big, active Australian pond barra have you recently landed in tight country on light leaders. Now Im no expert, but I'd consider anything over 90 as big and active, they are often the most troublesome to put in the net, big and quick enough to cause a fisho grief, small enough to not knock up to quickly. Is it just a percentage game, you dont catch a lot of these fish, so percentage of lost fish to leader/hook failue is low, or in your case 0%? Statistics statistics statistics.

What do the guides use, after all, they are on the water day in day out and one would assume that their bread and butter depends upon ensuring the client lands the fish? After all, it is about a successfull outcome to the hunt, balancing subtle presentations to fool wary fish against the demand on gear to then successfully land that fish! I would assume they try to maximise the odds of that happening, are they fishing finese leaders and light hooks to do that?

[Member]

BTW, Im not having a go, or interested in a sh%t fight, Im just curious as to what first hand recent experiences you base your comments on?
If your up there smackin fish weekly, or even monthly, I will stand corrected?
If you go 2 or 3 times a year, I'll stick with what I know works for me, and dis-regard your comments?

Brian

[Member]

Never lost a baramundi to a chaffed leader or straightened hook, really? Thats some good angling all right!
Im a little curious, how many trips do you do a month/year/the last 5 years? How many big, active Australian pond barra have you recently landed in tight country on light leaders. Now Im no expert

Hi Brian,

If your question is at me, yes I have lost barra to a busted leaders and straightened hooks, that's quite rediculous to think otherwise. The percentage or ration of this happening is very low these days in comparison to when I was younger, dumber & tried to pull every fishes head off. I've found my bustoffs are more like getting the main line busted as opposed to straightening hardware and chaffed leaders. Again, the heavier your gear, the more pressure you can put on, the more you can stress hardware & chaff leaders. If you don't understand it & try it, you'll never know any different.

Trips? These days being southern based, not monthly, definately several per year & I've got no idea on the number in last 5 years, never enough.

Does that help? 

fitz..

[Member]

Fitz, thanks, but the question was aimed at Aussiebasser.


honestly, I have never lost a Barramundi to a chaffed leader or a straightened hook. 


cheers

brian

[Member]

yep, also a fan of the free spool and softly softly method, in the right instances.

[Member]

May as well wade in, it's all good -

The talk of bringing a knife to a gun fight is a good demonstration of text book rhetoric getting in the way of real world facts.  It's well understood amongst practitioners that a knife nearly always beats a holstered gun in 10 metres or under.  Broad statements don't take into account specifics of a situation. 

I use 100lb leader, I've had that wear through before, hooks bend even singles.  Bugger me even had the kevlar of an assist hook wear through the other night, all on barra.  Pulling a fish kicking and screaming to the boat is what floats my boat.  I set my gear up to suit and wear both the jollies and consequenses of my actions. 

I've also fished the softly softly technique just to do it, even stuck the rod in a holder and let the things free swim around for a while to deal with another rod or just to see what happens. I'ts just like having a dog on chain testing the boundaries and deciding to stay within them.  Same fish, treat them different and they react like night and day. 

That said it makes sense to set your gear for the fishing technique that suits you the best from a physical and mental perspective.  If you try and emulate what someone else does without considering your own preferences you could end up being a round block in a square hole so take care .           

Note my favourite lure atm, kevlar string and 10/0s, leader 100lb . Some would look and quietly scoff. Who gives a toss, it suits me 

[Member]

Never lost a baramundi to a chaffed leader or straightened hook, really? Thats some good angling all right!
Im a little curious, how many trips do you do a month/year/the last 5 years? How many big, active Australian pond barra have you recently landed in tight country on light leaders. Now Im no expert, but I'd consider anything over 90 as big and active, they are often the most troublesome to put in the net, big and quick enough to cause a fisho grief, small enough to not knock up to quickly. Is it just a percentage game, you dont catch a lot of these fish, so percentage of lost fish to leader/hook failue is low, or in your case 0%? Statistics statistics statistics.

What do the guides use, after all, they are on the water day in day out and one would assume that their bread and butter depends upon ensuring the client lands the fish? After all, it is about a successfull outcome to the hunt, balancing subtle presentations to fool wary fish against the demand on gear to then successfully land that fish! I would assume they try to maximise the odds of that happening, are they fishing finese leaders and light hooks to do that?

Sorry Brian, after you've publicly made your opinion of me quite clear in the past, I really don't feel the need to justify myself to you.  I've only caught 10 Barra this year.  8 were over a metre and two were high 80's low 90's.
As Dick said, do whatever floats your boat, as long as it isn't trying to call someone out on a public web site.  I fish how I like to fish, some agree with me, some don't.  Sadly, that's your problem, not mine.  Demanding that the guides tell you what they use is following in the footsteps of your old mate.
I have two brothers, both are pretty good fishoes, but like the majority, don't frequent the internet.  My brother in Victoria mainly fishes for Murray Cod, his best is 85lb.  The one who live up here visits Awoonga at least once a year, his best is 127cm.  Neither use leaders at all.  The 85lb Cod was taken on 35lb Spiderwire, and the Barra was on 50lb Bionic (yep bright pink).  The Barra was taken solo and took over 30 minutes to land.  I'm not sure that I have the right to tell them that they're doing it all wrong.  Here's a pic of two 114s they got at Awoonga.  No leaders used.