Sweetwater Fishing Forums

General Category => Polls => Topic started by: Editor on December 22, 2010, 11:46:28 PM

Title: Are Fishing Licences a Good or Bad idea?
Post by: Editor on December 22, 2010, 11:46:28 PM
With recent discussions of the Pros and Cons of Fishing Licences we've put a poll up for you to have your say.

Are Fishing Licences a Good or Bad idea?

You will need to vote to be able to see the results.

Feel free to post a reply to this topic with your own thoughts.
Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good of Bad idea?
Post by: nagg on December 22, 2010, 11:58:07 PM
A well manged licence scheme with funds going into a trust .... works 

NSW are into around its 10th year and a hell of a lot of good has come out of it.

The SIP scheme up here has been a resounding success too

Queenslanders just need reassurance that it is not a cash grab and will be managed by the the right people 

Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good of Bad idea?
Post by: Apollo on December 23, 2010, 05:58:41 AM
Agree with Chris, with the most critical proviso being that a varst majority of the funds go towards such things as targeted commercial licences buyout, artifical reefs, habitat rehabiltation, possibly restocking.  There also needs to be geniune and equitable dispersal of benefits across the state - not just the SE QLD. A small % will need to used for the administration, but this needs to be auditable, so a trust (financial) system would cover that.

Unfortunately, most of the anglers that live here in QLD have become increasingly distrustful of the current government motives and ability to appropriately charge, manage or target funds.

Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good of Bad idea?
Post by: BG on December 23, 2010, 09:31:19 AM
I feel we should follow NSW.  If the system has worked there for 10 years then it has proven itself.  As for the management of the funds we should have a change at the top before long.

Surely it would be setup with some public (interested parties) being consulted.

Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good of Bad idea?
Post by: A Marshall on December 23, 2010, 09:53:08 AM
I believe that a lot of good could come out of a well managed licence system, however the current managers of this great state have demonstrated a severe lack of management skills :thumbdown
The majority of people are allready struggling with ever increasing taxes & utility bills.
A fishing licence introduced at the moment would be seen as just another money grab from a govenment that has lost the plot.

As has been said before the rec angling population requires a strong unified voice conversing with a govenment that the people can believe in. The other option could be a national licence system so you are not impacted when traveling between states, however a change of govenment  is required at a federal level for the same reasons, at the moment they would be hard pressed to organise a sh!t fight at a sewerage farm.

Cheers Andrew
Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good of Bad idea?
Post by: aussiebasser on December 23, 2010, 10:04:36 AM
The Queensland Stocked Impoundment Permit Scheme is the envy of the world as far as providing a recreational fishery on a user pays system.  I would hate to see it amalgamated into a general, state wide fishing license.  Volunteer stocking groups would close down, because it would be too hard to raise funds for small groups to continue stocking.  We already pay taxes to support the infrastructure of running our Country and our States, this includes law enforcement.  Current and past governments, both state and federal have squandered vast amounts of money without regard to the long term benefit of the people.  To give them access to the monies raised from the SIP scheme to do with as they wish, would see an immediate decline in fish stocks in Dams supported by volunteer groups.  Yes bring in a license if you must, but leave the SIP scheme as it is please.  Use the money from this new license to buy out all river netters, give them a redundancy package similar to a person working in the private sector, and give them reasonable market value for their equipment.  Return the rivers to recreational anglers only, and you won't need a Snapper closed season, because the nursery won't be getting it's guts netted out every day.
Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good of Bad idea?
Post by: Scott Mitchell on December 23, 2010, 11:25:20 AM
A blanket question/poll like this will not provide true sentiment - although I already see the few that have voted suggest the idea has potential ..........

I believe we need to suggest the frame work of what a general rec licence "could be " ......................

What are your thoughts on the idea of a General Recreational Fishing licence ?

If In Favour I suggest we would model it on the NSW example along the lines of :-

1) ALL money raised goes into two transparent Trust accounts – One for Freshwater ( taking over from the current SIPS program – This would be kicked off with a minimum of the average funds raised under the current SIPS over the last 3 years as a starting guide for allocation ) Plus a New Saltwater Trust – where All remaining fund would be held. No funds can be spent without written approval from the management committees.

2) Administration costs to manage the program would be capped at 10% from License contributions – This employs government staff to administer & manage the program.

3) The 1st priority would be to establish a selection of Recreation Fishing havens ( RFH's ) throughout Queensland in Key recreational angling areas IE: Great Sandy Straights – where ALL commercial fishing would be brought out of the designated areas– with no exceptions.

4) All remaining funds would be managed by a selection of committees consisting of recreational anglers from ALL zones with-in the state IE – Freshwater Committee – Saltwater Committee & a Head Committee – consisting of recreational anglers with expertise with in their areas.

5) What are your thoughts on costs ie:-

3 Days = $6.00
1 Month = $12.00
1 Year = $30.00
3 Years = $75.00

6) More back ground can be viewed @ http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/fisheries/recreational/licence-fee

Some light reading on this result can be found @ http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=154653&highlight=General+recreational+Fishing+Licence

Regards Scotto
Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good of Bad idea?
Post by: maverick76 on December 23, 2010, 12:09:55 PM

A tax by any other name ie. Lisence, Permit etc utilised effectively could certainly benefit the future of  recreational fishing.  However am I wrong to assume that I pay a 10% tax (GST) every time I buy something fishing/boating related?  Would it be wrong of me to assume that the funds collected from this tax are therefore not being distributed to the relevant governmental departments to help ensure the sustainability of fishing into the future or is it unfeasible to expect that this could occur.  I have no problem with the SIP scheme as the monies paid are directly applied to the sport in which I participate hence creating a sustainable future going forward.   

I understand that the NSW system has had obvious positive results to the rec and pro fishing industry and that can only be a good thing for everyone.  My concern is that this will turn into another bureacracy that needs to be funded to exist and that the money collected will be absorbed by salaries and office leases consequently directly reducing the very funds required to effectively manage the crisis it was set up to fix.

Politics by its nature is a very touchy subject and the views and opinions expressed by all on this forum show that we are all passionate about our sport and we all seek the best outcomes for its future.  Much debate and consultation will need to be sought to ensure the balance is met.  It does however concern me that future of this sport could be left in the hands of Peter Garret who I can assure would not be burning the Midnight Oil to ensure the best outcome for everyone.

This debate will rage on in earnest for many years to come and I will continue to voice my concerns which are not against a tax in principle just by whom it benefits and how and where it is collected from.  The rec and pro sectors pay healthy sums of tax to exist and or participate in this recreation.  A recreation that creates thousands if not hundreds of thousands of jobs.

My hope is that the consultation process on this proposal encompasses the very people that help it to exist.  My old man always said measure twice........cut once.  Lets just hope it can be applied in this instance.

Just my thoughts and happy to be corrected if I am wrong. I just want to go fishing!!!

Colin Linton 
Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good of Bad idea?
Post by: BG on December 23, 2010, 01:05:39 PM
Just a sideline while this is under discussion folks.

A lot of us are not happy to see too much funds in the hands of our pollies and govt departments
I am a voter and I dislike them as much as anybody, some a little more, but over the past few decades I feel there has been a move to a little more honesty and transparency.

Heads have been rolling, look at the number of whistle blowers that have put their hands up in the last few years.  Transparency is a busword that must be in the front of their minds in the years ahead.

You can bet they will be tightening their systems, or becoming transparent, in case there is a minor Wickleaks on the local scene.

No more do we have to drive 10 or 100k to go to a meeting then send the local member a copy of the minutes and hope they read it.

They will be aware of your discussion and should be taking it on board, we hope.

Good luck
Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good of Bad idea?
Post by: Dick Pasfield on December 23, 2010, 03:41:48 PM
One thing a licence does is buy a seat at the negotiating table, many would wonder why that would be necessary since we are all tax payers. Does that wash with the commercial fishers who pay taxes, who pay for a licence to fish?  A licence can buy a portion of the TAC for recreational anglers.  Negotiations can carried out between the fishery sectors and the Gov and seen to be on an equal footing.

Another thing a licence does is buy the user the right to fish, within the laws.  If you think that you inherit the right to fish and therefore a licence is irrelevant think again, times change.  It may have been everybody's right to take a roo for tucker once.  When was the last open season, may well have been in the Great Depression? 

A licence is more about ownership and being able to demonstrate it from my point of view than anything else.

What do you do with the money, who controls it etc are details that often condemned the whole idea to the rubbish bin for a decade or so.  It's a matter of the tail wagging the dog while other interests look on with bemusement wondering if that mob will ever get their sh!t together, meanwhile lets have another marine park over there because the water is such a pretty shade of blue.

WA has just adopted a recreational boating licence, this exempts shore based anglers so the very casual angler, pensioners, kids etc can do their thing from the shore without the need for one.

To date from a regional point of view Kununurra has it's first Fisheries compliance officer since 'ever', number one priority for angler groups up here since year dot.  We now have a funded Recfishwest.  We will be restocking Lake Kununurra with barra, that Monduran sucker will be nothing but live bait when that kicks off ;)

A lot of good can come from a licence, a lot of bad came come from not properly preparing for the fact that the fishery is a diminishing resource and there are interest groups dead keen to see rec fishing reduced to fishing a few cake crumbs out of your latte while watching documentaries on how to gain further insights from one's navel       
Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good of Bad idea?
Post by: takrat on December 27, 2010, 08:43:20 PM
Love your posts Dick, always to the point and with just a hint of bush humour. I believe that as long as the SIP is left alone a properly managed rec license can do nothing but positive things for us. All the Qld mob have to do is ask NSW for a copy of the way the southern thing is run and try hard not to Balls it up. Then we DO have a seat at the table and a solid bargaining chip as well as a quantifiable figure on the number of participants.
Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good of Bad idea?
Post by: Scott Mitchell on December 28, 2010, 09:55:17 AM
Here are some figure on the what the NSW general license system raises over the previous few years  :-

06/07 - $10.6MIL
07/08 - $10.7MIL
08/09 - $13.4MIL


The break down on NSW License sales periods is :-

10% (3yr)
30% (1r)
20% (1mth)
40% (3day)
*These % do not change much year to year.

Some more good reading to be had @ http://www.recfish.com.au/projects/p...ary%202009.pdf

"Apparently" 8.75 million is allocated to Qld DPI&F from public revenue currently - with an additional 2.75 million from taxes on rego etc 

Imagine if we could raise an additional $8+ million from a general recreational angling licences - AND have a say in exactly how it is spent via a similar system as NSW as "proposed" 

Regards Scotto
Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good of Bad idea?
Post by: Apollo on December 28, 2010, 10:30:06 AM
Interesting read Scott.  I was suprised that on the breakdown of the licences bought as to their duration.  Indicated that there is a lot of tourist or once a year type fisherman.  Kind of puts to ley the arguement that a licence will deter fishing tourism.

Good thread with some pros and cons being discussed.

Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good of Bad idea?
Post by: 2Dogs on May 31, 2011, 12:33:18 AM
Understand the posts above, however I just don't like paying for something that we've been doing for free since we climbed down out of the trees. Fish breed on their own, we are hunter / gatherers, we hunt them & eat them. Why should they be taxed?

Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good of Bad idea?
Post by: Binder on May 31, 2011, 05:18:12 AM
2dogs, one could be cynical and say if the government thought there was a buck in it, they would be more keen to see it preserved, therefore a  "tax" might not be such a bad idea.

Do you think fags would still be on the shelf at the local supermarket if the government wasn't getting a huge whack of tax out of them?   ::)
Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good or Bad idea?
Post by: aussiebasser on May 31, 2011, 06:54:40 AM
Understand the posts above, however I just don't like paying for something that we've been doing for free since we climbed down out of the trees. Fish breed on their own, we are hunter / gatherers, we hunt them & eat them. Why should they be taxed?

Trouble is, since some people have crawled out of the trees, they haven't travelled far from them.  A fishing license is not a tax, it is a license fee.  Look back in history and see the fishery as it was, and how man has now decimated it in many areas.  Without stocking, which is funded by license fees, we wouldn't have a fishery.  With unabated shamatuer fishermen, selling their catches, we wouldn't have a fishery.  Without fisheries officers stopping the illegal netters, we wouldn't have a fishery.  The way the SIP scheme is written, a governement that is even as incompetent as our current one, cannot get it's sticky fingers on the majority of the funds.
Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good or Bad idea?
Post by: takrat on May 31, 2011, 07:12:14 PM
Good post Dale, you're right about how limited is the journey some have made from the evolutionary tree. You don't have to look far to find them either. The law really is only for the law abiding, as locks only keep honest people out. There needs to be much harder enforcement of existing laws, but if a license goes toward buying out some of the borderline pro's who are barely making wages, and helps with enforcement, I reckon that's just one of the possible benefits to a license.
Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good or Bad idea?
Post by: rick.heaton on July 27, 2011, 10:58:13 AM
if we implement a licence scheme we do not have the manpower to inforce it i have been fishing for 40 years and have only ever been inspected once and that was for my sip,so if they implement one the majourity of the funds will go to enforceing the scheme instead of putting the funds into byback etc. if a tax was introduced on fishing and boating items people will buy more over the net and bypass the tax ,hence we loose both ways. if the government put say $5 on every boat rego and put that money into byback they wont be forking out for extra enforcement officers and equipment and the money can go straight to work,queensland have the most amount of boats per head in australia.i live on the downs i dont mind paying the extra on my two boats to go to byback and keep our sip scheme. 
Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good or Bad idea?
Post by: aussiebasser on July 27, 2011, 11:14:48 AM
I wonder how a guy with a ski-boat, or an offshore cruiser or a jet ski would feel about having to pay an extra $5 per year to improve a fishery he  doesn't use.
Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good or Bad idea?
Post by: fishfolk on July 27, 2011, 05:09:07 PM
All excellent points of veiws Gents....and people are really thinking about the future of their hobby, lifestyle, sport and/or passion (or reason to get away from the missus and kids). The finding of funds for anything the government provides ATM is a task destined to tears. Wheteher it is through poor management, extremely large reconstruction costs or just plain 'everything is just more expensive - even for the government' - one thing is for certain money is tight.

I would also like to put to bed an old myth...a furphy that loves being thrown around and that is " Boating & Fisheires Patrol have only inspected me once or twice in ten years ....therefore......they aren't doing their job or there isn't enough of them".  Firstly, you are right - there isn't enough of them. They like everyone in todays workforce could enjoy the swelling of their ranks, just as much as the police, public health providers, or even private enterprise, but that doesn't stop them doing their job. I will offer you some facts - in the halcyon days of the early 1990's when there was 11 QB&FP (maybe even Harbours & Marine days...) staff on the Gold Coast and 21 staff in the Cairns office - compliance to fisheries and boating safety legislation stood at something like 95-98%. i can recall one summer holiday Saturday in early 1990's, checking over 500 vessels and talking to over 100 people on the Broadwater - i believe there was no details taken about any non-compliance and only a few warnings given about 'ratty' life-jackets or other small issues. In 2011, there are (I think) about 6 or 7 staff on the Goldie and about the same in Cairns.....guess what ....compliance still sits at 95-98%.
I put this down to several things - the Fishwatch hotline ( and the public) - QB&FP could not and would not function as an enforcemnent agency without the help of Mr Joe Public and those who are willing to say " No, that is not right...I am going to do something about it". There are many out there who say " No, that is not right..." but do nothing about it.
Secondly, the QB&FP staff that the Queensland public pay for, are the best - bar none...trained and equipped of any of the State government fisheries & boating enforcement officers - bar none !!  The WA guys are very good and the other States are also good but the Queensland QBFP personnel are by far the best trained enforcement officers in their field. Ask how many are getting poached by Customs, Coastwatch, Federal Police, State Police agencies. They are trained and mentored through the probationary and training programmes better than any other. Which leads me to why they have remained efficient and compliant-focussed whilst losing staff - they have the tools and training to target those customers that most likely fit the profile of non-compliance. I always hear folk say - Fisheries never doing there job...I've never been checked. I will bet you $100 grundy that even if you were pulled over and checked by qb&fp they would find nothing wrong with your boat, your catch  or your licensing...therefore they aren't seen - is a Furphy!!!

Where was this all going....ah yes........ License or No License.......It would take a very very brave Minister to put the Licensing Option on the table in Queensland...I think old Tom Burns ...may have got away with it, but an untrustwrothy Queensland government and a carbon-copy (sorry about the pun !!!) Opposition - and a alternative Green vote that is far more frightening than either Labor or LNP. I just can see a License on the horizon. Those who have pointed out the excellent SIPS program, the benefits from that scheme and some kudos for the public servants that run it - why... thank you. And yes 25% administrative costs appears high but I can debate that in another place....

Cheers   Fishfolk
Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good or Bad idea?
Post by: Sweetwater on July 27, 2011, 06:06:12 PM
Thanks for the insight SP.  :thanks

Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good or Bad idea?
Post by: Pinhead on July 31, 2011, 11:01:24 AM
we already pay via our rego..so does anyone really think they would drop that if a RFL is introduced? I doubt it.

Scott..we have been down this path before..comparing NSW figures is ridiculous..more people down there and less coastline..so how about working out actual figures for Qld. I will fight against a general rfl ..it would just be another Govt grab.

I am amazed at how many people are in favour of paying more taxes..personally I don't want any more...call it s alicense or a tax..all the same..just more money going into Govt coffers.

BUT..if it was introduced..who would manage it..who would be on this so called board? Would every license holder be able to vote for the management committee or would it just be another jobs for the boys eg Sunfish parking their butts on it.

SIPS works well..leave it alone and no more taxes.
Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good or Bad idea?
Post by: takrat on August 06, 2011, 08:29:21 PM
There have been some very good comments on this thread and obviously there are more than a few deep thinkers among us. The facts are that NSW is really the only valid model to compare with. Add to the the fact that the 2 states share common borders and it's not too hard to see why the comparison is made. It still comes down to the fact that WE do not have enough say in our own recreation. The current mob inCanberra saw to that when funding was cut to recfish. Yes the system works well in NSW but is not without flaws; eg license money being used for research that should have come from DPI/ Fisheries budget. But it does work. The devil as always is in the detail and until we can extract gold plated guarantees we won't be making any progress. In the meantime the pro's will continue to pillage the estuaries, and haul the beaches during the Bream spawn. Yes this IS a Freshwater site but anyone who thinks the two disiplines can be totally isolated is living under a rock. Fisho's are by thier nature individualists and there fore we never seem to be able to unite, not even within the confines of a fishing club. If you want a bottom line then this is it; Unless we are able to present a united front to the pollies we are always going to be playing catch up.
End of rant.
Title: Re: Are Fishing Licences a Good or Bad idea?
Post by: ramonfernandez on August 10, 2011, 08:18:48 PM
Well said takrat.  As for me, I voted for I don't really like it but I guess there has got to have a fishing license.  This keeps everything regulated.  But just like what Takrat sait, fishers should begin with a unite front first.