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Poll

Would you like to have improved access to North Pine Dam?

Yes - I'd like to be able to kayak / canoe in the main basin of the lake
Yes- I'd like to be able to launch my electric powered tinnie in the main basin
Yes - I'd like to be able to run my bass boat on Lake Samsonvale (NPD)
Yes - but for BAS permit holders only
Keep the same area but allow petrol motors for BAS permit holders
Not really - keep all access the way it is
Keep it the way it is but give more shore access places for land based fishing
No - Lock the lake up and let nobody on there
Other - I will post a reply

Author Topic: Would you like to have improved access to North Pine Dam?  (Read 16115 times)

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Would you like to have improved access to North Pine Dam?
« on: May 04, 2011, 08:19:56 PM »
Would you like to have improved access to Lake Samsonvale (North Pine Dam) on Brisbane's north side?

Do you currently pay for a Boating Access Scheme Permit or would you pay for one if the area was expanded or would you prefer the whole lake to be opened to the general public?

Tell us what you think................





You can vote for two options to best cover your preference. You can only see the results after you have voted.


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Re: Would you like to have improved access to North Pine Dam?
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2011, 08:51:17 PM »
Dont like the fact that it is on the SIP scheme and you need to go into the chook raffle to get on it and pay for access.


Just my 0.02 cents. Round that down if you like

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Re: Would you like to have improved access to North Pine Dam?
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2011, 04:32:29 AM »
Have not had the "raffle" for a couple of years now, its first come first serve.

I voted for kayak / canoe access for the general public in the main basin. Best solution in my opinion.

If they give electric boat access to the public, it would probably mean having to ditch the BAS (with a corresponding decrease in funds available for stocking).

Probably just make it that PRFMA members get boat access at their lease as part of their membership, same deal as most other clubs with their own access points to SEQ water work.

PS I pay for access under the BAS scheme, (And obviously a PRFMA member),  happy to pay, even though I mostly only use it during kids school holidays. I know the funds go in to adding fish, certainly dont begrudge that. I am also happy that it is now on the SIP, it now means all those land based people who have been catching the stocked fish are now also contributing to the costs of stocking the dam.  Having the DAM on the SIP is particularly important when you consider that when the dam drops below 40 odd percent the BAS scheme cant run and their is no income stream for stocking fish without the SIP. (During the drought, there were several years where no fish went in to the dam, part of the reason numbers of fish caught currently are not great).

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Re: Would you like to have improved access to North Pine Dam?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2011, 06:37:53 AM »
Surely the SIP is enough.  It works for Wivenhoe, Somerset, Bjelke Petersen, Boondooma, Maroon, Moogerah, Leslie, Tinaroo, Monduran, Lenthalls, etc.  The only other place where you have to pay the stocking group directly to access the water on top of the SIP is Hinze.  Many fishos see this as double dipping.

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Re: Would you like to have improved access to North Pine Dam?
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2011, 07:43:14 AM »
I was of the understanding that BAS was going to be dropped if NPD went onto the SIP scheme..? and if not why not..

Now what will happened if NPD starts to become a great Bass fishery using the extra money from the BAS ??

How long will it be that other dams on the SIP scheme start going to either there local councils or water boards asking for permission to lock up access to those lakes so that they may get more money to drive up the stocking rates/figures.

Boom gates are starting to pop up all over the place and fee's are being asked to get access to some dams, I believe if things keep going along those lines the dams/lakes that have free access will start getting over fished it may not happened today or tomorrow but in the next couple of years, it will be interesting to hear people thoughts.

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Re: Would you like to have improved access to North Pine Dam?
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2011, 10:01:00 AM »
I believe all dams that are part of the SIP should be accessible by all.

For me being in a kayak I should be able to launch at an open public access area and in NPD case be able to fish the entire dam that is open to every other group that uses the dam.  Kayakers should not need to pay extra to access any dam as a kayaker requires only a bank open to the water to launch. So if NPD is part of SIP, all I need to fish there is the SIP.

Boating permits for the dams, I feel that there should be one boating permit that applies to all the dams, meaning why does a boat owner need to pay a fee to use Somerset and Wivenhoe and then cough up another fee to use NPD.

Cheers

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Re: Would you like to have improved access to North Pine Dam?
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2011, 03:06:15 PM »
It would be great to get access to the main basin at NPD.  I guess SEQWater aren't ready for that yet.  They own Wivenhoe and Somerset as well, so NPD's location and vicinity to urban areas might have something to do with it....  Public liability and risk might be a factor when granting access and how much that costs ???

Cheers

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Re: Would you like to have improved access to North Pine Dam?
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2011, 06:20:51 PM »
Sorry fella's cant attempt to address your issues, perhaps attending a meeting of the PRFMA and asking those questions?

I would say to Sel, that some form of segregation of activities on dams is useful, so access to all of a dam is not necessarily the best solution. (Who wouldn't want skiers segregated for example)  Many dams have no fishing, no entry, no wash areas.



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Re: Would you like to have improved access to North Pine Dam?
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2011, 07:51:40 PM »
First off I am proud to be a menber of the PRFMA and also have had a BAS since the second year that the permit system started.
 The views that I express are mine and not necessarly those of the PRFMA.
Steven M wrote.
 Dont like the fact that it is on the SIP scheme and you need to go into the chook raffle to get on it and pay for access.


Could you please explain the difference  between a boating permit for Somerset/Wivenhoe and NPD.
The only time a ballot for permits was held was the inaugural year when only 100 permits were allowed.Sinjce then the total permits sold have never met the ceiling. There are plenty of permits available for the current period which commenced on Wednesday.

Aussiebasser said.
Surely the SIP is enough.  It works for Wivenhoe, Somerset, Bjelke Petersen, Boondooma, Maroon, Moogerah, Leslie, Tinaroo, Monduran, Lenthalls, etc.  The only other place where you have to pay the stocking group directly to access the water on top of the SIP is Hinze.  Many fishos see this as double dipping.

Hinze is not part of the SIP they used to get a lot of support from the Gold Coast Council and the Rangers used to sell permits for them.This no longer happens and with only 3 outlets selling permits they must really be struggleing.

The monies that PRFMA recieve from the SIP scheme are only aprox half those raised by the PRFMA and all monies raised go into stocking fingerlings. Even with the extra monies from the SIP we do not come close to stocking at the optimum levels.

Are you a member of all these stocking assns that you can comment that the SIP monies are sufficient for them to operate effectively because the last that I heard was that Lenthalls are really struggleing and had to make a decision that they could not afford to stock a significant number of barra fingerlings due to the cost.

Macdonalds said.
I was of the understanding that BAS was going to be dropped if NPD went onto the SIP scheme..? and if not why not..

Now what will happened if NPD starts to become a great Bass fishery using the extra money from the BAS ??

First that I have heard about the BAS being dropped.

It was a good bass fishery before the SIP monies becoming available.

My own comments:-
I would certainly like to see more areas of the dam opened to boating access but unless another ramp can be found in the Kobble creek arm there is a significant problem with battery power to reach additional areas from the current ramp.
Maybe a solution is using similar restrictions such as those at Lenthalls with a 6 knot speed limit and 4 stroke or fuel injected 2 strokes with a 60hp limit.

As far as giving more shore based access there is already a large amount of shoreline available that the Rangers struggle with looking after cleaning up after the grots.

I would also suggest having a look at the PRFMA website and see what we really do.
http://www.prfma.com.au/
Cheers
Ray





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Re: Would you like to have improved access to North Pine Dam?
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2011, 08:22:23 PM »
First off I am proud to be a menber of the PRFMA and also have had a BAS since the second year that the permit system started.
 The views that I express are mine and not necessarly those of the PRFMA.
Steven M wrote.
 Dont like the fact that it is on the SIP scheme and you need to go into the chook raffle to get on it and pay for access.


Could you please explain the difference  between a boating permit for Somerset/Wivenhoe and NPD.
The only time a ballot for permits was held was the inaugural year when only 100 permits were allowed.Sinjce then the total permits sold have never met the ceiling. There are plenty of permits available for the current period which commenced on Wednesday.


Cheers
Ray

Since you asked so nicely Ray

I dont need a permit to fish Wivenhoe or Somerset from my kayak

And I dont need a boating permit to fish Hinze from my Kayak ( yes I can pay 5 bucks for a days access) or pay 45 from memory for a year.

Why do I need a Permit besides my SIP to fish NPD. My choice will never to give my choice of coin allocation to NPD for that reason. It can get the governments coffers coin on surface area but not my bit extra.

I can understand when it was not on the SIP scheme but now that it is it should be all in.

Does that suffice?

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Re: Would you like to have improved access to North Pine Dam?
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2011, 09:23:45 PM »
Steve.
 Hinze dam permit is a fishing permit not a boating or kayaking permit.
You need the permit even if you fish from the shoreline.When the rangers were Gold coast council they used to police this. Cost is $40 per year.
I think that the  wording for the boating permit for Somerset/wivenhoe says if you transport the vessell by a trailer a permit is required so if you transport your yak on a trailer technically you need a permit.
 I really fail to understand why yaks should be exempt from fees as while in some instances  yakkers may launch from the shore they still have to access the shore line and use the facilities such as roads and parks  to access the water.
Cheers
Ray

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Re: Would you like to have improved access to North Pine Dam?
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2011, 10:39:29 PM »
I'd like to see the whole of Lake Samsonvale open to public access for kayaking, boating, fishing on a similar basis to other SEQWater operated lakes. A safety zone around dam wall is of course to be expected.

There is a difference between low imact kayaking & canoeing to wake boating, both to the lake, the water & to other users. There's enough open water in the salt and at various lakes around SEQ where water skiing, wake boating & PWCs dominate the waterway; it is taking your life into your own hands kayaking when the doof doof boats are around.

Let's face it, many of the deeper stratifying bass lakes often produce some of the best fishing on the flats & break lines in the main Basin, NPD is no different. I've been out in the main basin at NPD & caught some cracker bass & golden perch out there. Yep, it would be great to be able to do that on any given day.
Even those who buy a BAS permit can't get to the main basin.

So all these good fish are out there (if they haven't gone over the wall in a flood) with nobody able to fish for them until the fish moved into the river arm, or within casting distance one of the few public access points, or go over the wall.

IMHO if the BAS permit area was extened to cover the main basin & up around the wind jockey exclusive use zone it would solve the issues. This, or just adopt a similar system to Wivenhoe where you can launch at various places if you have SIP and boating permit (if needed for a trailerable boat) where the boating permit fees collected contribute to ramp maintenance.

Lake Samsonvale is a fair sized body of water. With the SIP allocation being based 50% on surface area it will get some good injection of funds ($14,851 in 2010). Perhaps if it was based on the area of water that can be accessed it might seem fairer to some I can imagine. However this funding is also based 50% on angler preferences, with the restricted access Lake Samsonvale is never going to rate well; the opportunity exists to almost double the funds injection for fish stocking if more anglers "ticked" it.

To back this up, take a look at the following comparison.

Lake                Surface Area           2010 SIP funds
Somerset        4200 hectares              $71 047
Samsonvale    2200 hectares              $14 851
Based on surface area allocation, Samsonvale should get just over half of what Somerset does (say $28 - 30k), but it didn't; angler perferences made all the difference.

If you take 100 fish per hectare / annum as a maximum maintenance stocking rate (based on DPI&F recommendation) & if we say you can buy bass at 25cents each, Samsonvale would need 220 000 fish costing $55 000 / annum. This is of course very general figures but gives an idea of what it would take, based on DPI&F to maintain a recreational fishery with full access. Factor in the close proximity of Samsonvale to Brisbane, if this lake were to have a more reasonable access the angler preference could easily exceed that of the even the most popular (eg Somerset, Monduran, Tinaroo etc)& rocket upto $40k+ a year giving a stocking rate of around 160 000 fish per annum (70 - 75% to peak stocking rate) without having to run a single chook raffle.
To get the same stocking ratio at Somerset it would take around $105k per annum, or 5-10% more (apples for apples) to reach max stocking density. Based on the fact that Somerset has never been stocked to its maximum yet still produces trophy fish even with in excess of 1000 angler days / week says that max stocking densities are not needed to create & maintain a top class fishery. IMHO $35k / annum would nail it & still be able to handle similar angler pressure to Somerset; half the angler pressure = halve the need for stocking = half the money needed. This brings it back to $17.5k... The SIP almost covers it if the status quo is maintained.


Did I lose anyone there??  ;D

Anyhow, all that gobeldygook aside, I recon it's a good thing if people can just go fishing, the easier it is for them, the more we will see kids fishing in the future into adulthood. It's better than bloody playstation.....  :thumbsup

fitz..

PS- And for the record. I supported the application of Lake Samosnvale (North Pine Dam) to be added to the SIP scheme at the FMAC.

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Re: Would you like to have improved access to North Pine Dam?
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2011, 02:38:22 AM »
Some very valid points there Fitzy.

Maybe this is something that PRFMA may have to concider in regards to the SIP on Lake Samsonvale and the possibility in dropping the BAS. It may benefit the group more, but I'm not one to judge.

I have plenty of impoundments to fish up this way however I know if the BAS was dropped, I would fish Lake Samsonvale once or twice maybe even more per year.

Lake Samsonvale is where I used to fish on weekends as a young fella growing up in what was then a country town. This is where I gained my passion for freshwater fishing be that we mainly caught Catfish and Spangled Perch before other species were introduced. It would be great to go back and visit and wet a line.

I personally would like to see the fishery open to all anglers to fish on the water.

Cheers Dave

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Re: Would you like to have improved access to North Pine Dam?
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2011, 06:14:17 AM »
Ah, Fitzy, I think you have the dollars around the wrong way for NPD and somerset?

Quote
edit:  Yes he did, I've fixed it.  Dale

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Re: Would you like to have improved access to North Pine Dam?
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2011, 07:13:45 AM »
Could you please explain the difference  between a boating permit for Somerset/Wivenhoe and NPD.


Are you a member of all these stocking assns that you can comment that the SIP monies are sufficient for them to operate effectively because the last that I heard was that Lenthalls are really struggleing and had to make a decision that they could not afford to stock a significant number of barra fingerlings due to the cost.

Cheers
Ray






The difference between a boating permit for Somerset and Wivenhoe and a BAS permit for North Pine is that the money for Somerset and Wivenhoe permits goes to the Water Board, while the money for North Pine permits goes to PRFMA.  My knowledge of Hinze was incorrect, therefore Lake Samsonvale is unique, in South East Queensland at least, in that you need to pay a fee to the Government and a fee to the local fish stocking group to fish it.  This is what I meant by double dipping.
I don't know of a lake in Queensland that is stocked to it's maximum potential, however I do know that lakes that are over stocked will produce stunted fish.  The emphasis on most lakes is finding a happy medium where people can catch "trophy" fish.  As an example, Somerset is a fishery where people can go and have a reasonable chance of catching a good feed of fish.  Yes, kill them and take them home.  Wivenhoe is a fishery where people have more of a chance of catching a "trophy" fish.  This has occured by: a.  The nature of the dams.  b.  The fact that Wivenhoe gets less fishing pressure, (although that is changing) and c.  The Stocking Group work towards this happening with the mix of fish released into the Dams.

As you are fully aware, I am a member (life member now) of SWFSA.  This group is responsible for stocking the two best Bass, Golden Perch and Silver Perch lakes in South East Queensland with the highest angler pressure.  Since the SIP scheme implementation, yes, we have maintained stocks using SIP funds, very rarely spending more than the allotted allocation, and never discussing at a meeting the need for us to charge the general public a fee to use the facility.

Barra fingerlings are about four times the cost of Bass fingerlings, so obviously stocking greater numbers of Barra will cost four times more than Bass, simple arithmetic should tell you that.

 

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