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Author Topic: Vieja synspillum in Lake Kurwongbah  (Read 9660 times)

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Vieja synspillum in Lake Kurwongbah
« on: February 13, 2011, 10:24:13 PM »
Had the fourth confirmed capture of this south american cichlid from Kurwongbah tonight. A 20cm male fish caught by a friend of mine who catches "feeders" for his pet Cod there (Cod ate it  :thumbsup). The previous one caught was a female, no doubt about the sex of either both identified by expert SA cichlid keepers.  These fish are aggressive pisciverous predators which grow to 35 cm.

cheers
Steve
 



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Re: Vieja synspillum in Lake Kurwongbah
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2011, 11:28:18 PM »
Steve,

            What is its common name , what name it would be sold under in the aquarium trade?

Cheers,
Dave.

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Re: Vieja synspillum in Lake Kurwongbah
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2011, 11:53:57 PM »
Sold as Synspillum or Redhead Cichlid a few different hybrids available. Flowerhorns are a Vieja hybrid I think
Maybe one of the "Darkside" fishkeepers on the forum will add something.

cheers
Steve

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Re: Vieja synspillum in Lake Kurwongbah
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2011, 04:14:53 AM »
Whilst in no way condoning the release of aquarium fish, it is sort of understandable when little Jill says "daddy do we have to kill it, cant we let it go". Absolutely wrong, but a moment of stupidity.

What really gets me is the shear acts of bastardry, like the ever increasing population of Forkies in North Pine dam. From the first "oh my god" when I got one there about 4 years ago, the mongrels are becoming a semi regular catch.

No way they got in the there except some mongrel decided to ruin the fishery. Not exactly an aquarium fish someone cant bare to feed to the cat.

Another couple of years and it wont be worth soaking a bait in the dam.

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Re: Vieja synspillum in Lake Kurwongbah
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2011, 12:48:08 PM »
Spot on with the aquarium trade buggerizing things up for fishoes, have heard of a bloke near brisbane with a 4000ltr swimming pool full of flowerhorn cichlid breading them for resale .... it only takes a bird of prey to snatch one up and accidently drop it into a local waterway and oops there goes the eco system.

The trade of foriegn fish species in this country has to stop but if it ever did wich it wont it will already be too late the damage has already been done to a number of stocked impoundments rivers and creeks.

Steve

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Re: Vieja synspillum in Lake Kurwongbah
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2011, 05:02:35 PM »
Steve, Happens way too often, and the Govt seems powerless (or unwilling) to stop it.

and then there's the aquarium entusuiast that started the cabomba growing at Colledge's Crossing pool , emptying his tank contents there. There is nothing the council can do about it, because they didn't see it happen, and all they have done since is warn against dislodging it so it spreads...
I guess it might be covering the seagrass beds now after the floods

I would vote for a law against non native fish in aquaria  :youbeauty

Brad

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Re: Vieja synspillum in Lake Kurwongbah
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2011, 06:22:44 PM »

I would vote for a law against non native fish in aquaria  :youbeauty

Brad

Agreed Brad but dont think that will happen in my lifetime

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Re: Vieja synspillum in Lake Kurwongbah
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2011, 11:06:50 AM »
I received some information from a guy I know who is involved in the Aquarium Industry, and is a pretty active recreational angler.  I'm putting this up here and keeping him anonymous as a means of giving a bit of balance to the argument.  When people don't know the full facts on an issue, but place definate blame at the feet of an industry or a person, it is fair to give them an opportunity to defend themselves.  Reading through this, I can honestly say that the information he has given seems to be 100% correct.  I was personally involved in watching the spread of European Carp in the Murray during the '70's, and they had nothing to do the the Aquarium industry, the same with Redfin and that other popular angling fish that I get in trouble over when I refer to it as a feral.
Please read this with an open mind
Quote
1. The Aquarium industry would be equal or only slightly smaller than the fishing industry in terms of participation and retail outlets. (but not expenditure or media), it is not small, we are entitled to economic consideration.
2. It is illegal to release fish into the environement with fines up to $200k plus eradication fee's.
3. Every industry balances sustainable environment and profit, do we stop building, farming and mining too?
4. Native fish in aquaria is a potentially greater environmental risk than non native fish (using the escape is inevitable argument that anti- aquaria types use)
5. Arguments by fishermen against non native fish are largely hypocritical (fish outside their home range) and how many of them enjoy targetting Murray Darling species that are stocked outside their natural range.
6. Australia's largest freshwater fishing industry revolves around trout a feral species which the governments actively breed and release.
7. Non native primary Industry is integral into Australia’s lifetsyle, beef, pork, chicken, lamb, wheat, sugar, banana, milk, eggs, lawn and garden, cotton etc.
8. The whole aquarium industry has been called to account here, when the vast majority of the industry is very environmentally aware and ethical
9. It is widely known that cabomba will perish in saltwater, not choke seagrass beds.
10. There is a restrictive list of allowable imported fish, and a list of noxious fish which are illegal to keep.
11. I would counter that the fishing industry has been responsible for far more pest fish spread and translocation than the aquarium industry, eg barred grunter, bony bream, snub nosed gar, spangled perch, yellowbelly, silver perch, saratoga, barra in tinaroo, mary cod in the Brisbane, Logan and Coomera catchments the list is very long- but you never see the Aquarium industry throwing stones.
12. The aquarium industry is commonly blamed for tilapia, and carp in oz, both are not true. The carp that are rampant in oz are boolara strain, an escaped farmed variety, tilapia (contrary to popular belief) have never been a popular aquarium fish. It is thought that some immigrants are responsible for their introduction and spread. Look at PNG for example, they are everywhere up there and can we blame the aquarium industry up there? There is none.

Australia's only known fish extinction was the lake eacham rainbowfish which was knocked over when mouth almighty got introduced into Lake Eacham (by water birds) from nearby Lake Tinaroo. Luckily the aquarium industry had captive populations and I think it has been reintroduced from these.


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Re: Vieja synspillum in Lake Kurwongbah
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2011, 11:30:16 AM »
Food for thought.

Australia's only extinction was at lake eacham & from mouth almighty?

Have you been there & seen the cihclids in there?

Good to know the Brisbane River cod isn't extinct as well.

As with all things, the majority suffer for the bad stuff done by the minority, so the aquarium trade must suffer the same.

Are pearl cichlids are food or aquarium fish? Genuinely would like to know.  ???

Gambusia were another "cane toad" species bought in to control pests by govt....

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Re: Vieja synspillum in Lake Kurwongbah
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2011, 11:57:06 AM »
Dale not to sound like im having a go at you but i disagree with some of the points in that snippet and some make a valid point but all i saw when when i read that was passing the buck to a fine art.

I know the euro carp werent a part of the aquarium trade but believe it was partly for sport but wouldnt disagree with what the person who wrote the article's opinion was.
Saying talapia arent a very popular aquarium trade fish may be true but there would have been a reason people where getting them into australia FOR the aquarium trade.

I used to have tropical fish and native fish in 4 and 5 ft tanks and used to communicate in the aquarium world a bit and the amount of ignorance and stupidity of other aquarium hobbiest with reguards to native fish and releasing tropical fish disgusted me so i got rid of the lot ( against a brick wall ) Quote one man who said "Wouldnt it be cool if i put fish ( x ) into the local creek to catch them !"

Tropical fish breed in all out of proportions to native australian fish and put side by side natives dont stand much of a chance.

Ignorance is everywhere these days and more of an epidemic than influenza.

Sorry Dale and sorry for the rant it just gets under my skin as much as the next fisho

Steve

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Re: Vieja synspillum in Lake Kurwongbah
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2011, 11:57:45 AM »
Thanks for that Dale, all points raised are correct.
The bottom line is that it comes back to responsibility, the majority of fishkeepers are responsible as is the majority of the Aquarium industry.
The V. synspillum were most likely being bred in a pond/dam somewhere in the catchement by a hobbiest(illegal) as the G. brasiliensis were in the Stanley catchment.
M. eachamenis is a classic case of translocation of non indiginous natives by fishermen, species of fish found in lake included Barred Grunter, Mouth Almighty, Bony Bream, Archer Fish none of which occurred naturally in the lake. Sooty Grunter and Barra also appeared.

cheers
Steve

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Re: Vieja synspillum in Lake Kurwongbah
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2011, 12:49:51 PM »

Good to know the Brisbane River cod isn't extinct as well.


I've not seen anything to say that Brisbane River Cod either existed in the first place, or are extinct now.  I know research is being done to try to confirm this.  How this could possibly involve the Aquarium industry eludes me.  The introduction of the Salmanoids was done by fishermen.  The introduction of the English Perch (Redfin) was by fishermen.  The introduction of Large Mouth Bass in Queensland was by fishermen.  The translocation of Golden Perch and Silver Perch to the eastern side of the Great Dividing Range was done by fishermen.  The introduction of European Carp into Gippland was done by fishermen.  The indroduction of Tench was done by fishermen.  The introduction of Crucian Carp was done by fishermen.  The introduction of Murray Cod into the upper Brisbane River was done by fishermen.  Sadly, we are not without fault.  I'm happy to admit that, and therefore I don't feel it is right to lump the blame completely on the Aquarium industry when there is no definite proof that they are responsible.

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Re: Vieja synspillum in Lake Kurwongbah
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2011, 02:05:11 PM »
we have enough faults of our own to deal with without having to worry about aquarium fish is what i should have said .

Just a question , who regrets the release of golden and silver perch east of the great devide, was it a wrong move ? please educate me .

Steve

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Re: Vieja synspillum in Lake Kurwongbah
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2011, 03:25:42 PM »
Just a question , who regrets the release of golden and silver perch east of the great devide, was it a wrong move ? please educate me .

Steve

Probably nobody who posts on this board.  But, if Tilapia were as good to eat and as much fun to catch a Yella's and Silvers, and if they'd been released a couple of hundred years ago, like trout and redfin, we'd all be here defending their existence.  On the basis that it is wrong to put fish into waters where they don't occur naturally, it is wrong to stock Murray Darling species east of the Great Dividing Range.  Translocating native fish can do just as much harm as translocating feral fish, however we promote it and actively damand it.  Unfortunately, it makes us, and especially me, hypocrits. 

I'm not sure what you meant by your passing the buck comment, the words I posted were not mine, as I explained.  Your mate who wanted to release his fish in the river, obviously didn't come to that conclusion as an aquarium keeper, it was his fishing side that wanted to release and then catch them.  Before anyone makes any blanket claims that the aquarium industry is responsible, and that the keeping of all non native species should be banned, really needs to have a very close look in his own backyard.

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Re: Vieja synspillum in Lake Kurwongbah
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2011, 03:36:46 PM »
What is the alternative? Let the Aquarium Trade bring in anything they want. Open slather??

Sorry guys, imports Vs natives is not apples Vs apples. Some cichlids are very adaptable species, much more so that our Aussie species, with an ability to overwhelm natives. Yellas, Cod, toga, perches on their own do not posses the ability or potential to do this on a scale as has been seen by cihclids in other places around the world.

I know we're not perfect, but we're no longer in the garden of eden here either. We've interfered with our waterways to such a level that restocking (yes its a last resort) has been used. Since the environment has been altered to such a degree in many locations, the stocking of natives is of little consequence, similar with foreigners, but at least most natives will die out without constant restocking.

3 cihclids in a tank  (above ground pool) at Don MacPerson Hatchery turned into several generations & hundreds of fish with no food except the odd leaf to eat. I don't know a single native that would have lived let alone reproduced 50 fold in that time in a swimming pool.

I don't know what the perfect answer is, but a mistake once done often cannot be undone, who would risk an unknown by permitting more non-natives & what they potentially carry to our native species as has been seen with redfin carrying EHN? http://www2.mdbc.gov.au/subs/fish-info/alien/redfin_perch.html

Does it matter who brought past pest fish here? Perhaps. Anglers mistakes were well in the past, the more recent mistakes are not so clear, I'd happily point a finger in another direction with some degree of confidence.

I'll ask to err on the side of caution without better knowlege. I thought we'd have learned from past mistakes by now eg Redfin, carp etc etc.....

Please, One cane toad is surely enough....

fitz..

 

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