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Author Topic: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?  (Read 16065 times)

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Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2013, 07:41:21 AM »
I would really love to know why I see photo's of Mary River Cod that are caught from area's that are not impoundments ie river's and creek's and the fish are taken from the water for photographing , why is it they not released immediately..... :Hunting)

Funny you should say that.
On another forum, I raised this exact same issue, in a very polite way I acknowledged that no doubt the MRC was Bass by catch, and ol mate handled and released it carefully, but also pointed out that fisheries were looking at people waving around pictures of MRC with regards to the no take regs, and perhaps if he wanted a pic, take it whilst the fish was in the water and he was un-hooking it. The mod there offered ol mate the opportunity to delete my thoughts as I was "highjacking" the report.
Others were asking for the GPS co-ords.
You can lead a horse to water, you cant make it drink....
Happy New Year all, tight lines

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Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2013, 08:02:41 AM »
What a load of #%@& B... They may aswell promote c&r of MRC

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Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2013, 08:53:46 AM »
What a load of #%@& B... They may aswell promote c&r of MRC

On the forum BR65 speaks of..........from what I've heard "they do" and proud of it, even gave the person an award  :Hunting)

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Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2013, 09:47:08 AM »
Crackers  if you want examples use the search function on any forum, read any mag etc. etc.

Andrew  not talking about joe bloggs, as stated refering to those who are well aware of it yet deliberately and intentionally ignore it or are complicit in it.

Brett  closed seasons apply to the commercial sector as well.

mackdonalds  I also would like to know why we see these pics, one of the reasons for this thread.

UBK  Grey area ? no grey area, No Take is clearly defined in the act

Andrew to add to Sweetwaters answer to the non indiginous native point,in the streams outside of the Mary catchment mariensis have been stocked as part of the MRCRRP, not non indiginous natives a critically endangered species stocked to replace an extinct/extirpated species.

BR65  again the point of the thread the legislation is there, the offender and the medium are well aware of it yet it is treated with deliberate contempt.


 
   

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Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2013, 07:49:26 AM »
The grey area is people interperating no take, as no take. Saying, alls good it was released, not taken. Thats what I meant. Here, direct from the website: NO TAKE SPECIES IN ALL OTHER WATERS. If accidentally caught, these species should immediately and carefully be returned to the water.
So in reading that, people will catch and interperate that as, I can take a happy snap before returning it quickly.
There is your grey area.
They need to clearly state in every part of the site and legislation that you can not take a picture even.. Something along those lines anyhow

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Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2013, 12:15:03 PM »
It is quite plain the definitional of immediate is without delay. Taking a photo is a delay.
Here is some related correspondence form 2009 that is still pertinent.
 This is the definition of “take” as stated in the Fisheries Act 1994

 

take fisheries resources includes—

(a) catch, gather, kill or obtain from water or land; and

(b) attempt to catch, gather, kill or obtain from water or

land; and

(c) land (from a boat or in another way), bring ashore or

tranship.

 

You will notice that attempting to catch fish is included in the definition of take and therefore my understanding is that if someone is attempting to take a species of fish during a closed season they would be in breech of the regulation.

 

Cheers

Anita

<><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><
Anita Ramage
Senior Fisheries Management Officer
Fisheries Harvest Management
Queensland Primary Industries and Fisheries
Department of Education, Economic Development and Innovation (DEEDI)
Phone  07 3247 5009  Facsimile 07 3229 8146
Email anita.ramage@deedi.qld.gov.au
Website www.dpi.qld.gov.au Call Centre 13 25 23
Queensland celebrates its 150th anniversary in 2009. Check out what's on today at www.q150.qld.gov.au
 Although Anita has moved on the law has not changed.
 I also have some correspondence somewhere that states that when A fish is taken from the water it is deemed to be "taken" now let us see all the arguments what about removing hooks etc?
 Cheers
Ray

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Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2013, 01:38:44 PM »
Part of the problem, no the whole problem, is that the definition of the word "take" by Queensland
Fisheries matches no other English speaking organisation's definition of the word "take"
From the Cambridge Dictionary
Quote
Take:

[T] to remove something, especially without permission

Has anything been taken (= stolen)?

Here's your pen, I took it by mistake.

All possessions had been taken from her.



[T] to subtract a number (= remove it from another number)

If you take 4 from 12 you get 8.

When Government departments start using the English language like normal people, without inventing new meanings for common words, people may start understanding the rules.


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Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2013, 01:56:42 PM »
I think that you will find that most legislation is written in very specific wording and in this case they even give their interpretation of the act of taking in the act itself.
I note that NSW also use the word take and taken in their act.
 Cheers
Ray 

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Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2013, 02:27:53 PM »
If attempting to catch a fish is the same as taking a fish why not simply have a "No Target" rule.  To me, a "No Take" rule should mean you can target them, but not take them.  Not all anglers are able to read the Fisheries Act 1994.

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Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2013, 02:43:18 PM »
i ask the question to all? if you hook a metre plus barra this time of the year whilst targeting other species (i.e. jacks) with a lure with trebles, do you attempt to unhook it boatside whilst the fish is in the water (especially using trebles).  freakin dangerous to angler and fish to my knowledge.   

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Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2013, 04:54:57 PM »
The regulations should be amended to include the word "target" next to "take" or use both, just to make it clear.

At the same time, fix the bull cra@p closes season exemptions eg bass in Ewen Maddock Dam, that and many others are a joke.

I hope fisheries department staff read this. Would like to get their oppinions.  :?)  :popcorn)

I recon if you're leaning over the side of a boat unhooking a fish, especially in croc water, you're asking for trouble.

***************

If all of the above is true, then other regulated species (has a bag / size limit or closed season) must be treated the same way? Example, if you already have 2 bass on board in a bass tournament & you keep fishing, then you're breaking the law as you are still targetting them yes?
Also, if you happen to catch an undersized yellowbelly, you cannot bring it into the boat to remove the hooks? I can see alot of fish getting ripped up severly with anglers trying to removed hooks while the fish is still on the water.
How do you know its under sized until you lay it on your ruler? Do we also have to measure the fish in the water as well?

What if you're fishing from a jetty or rock wall. Are you supposed to dive off the cliff or yetty to remove the hooks so that the fish is kept in the water? I'd like Ms Ramage to explain how little johnny is going to achieve that without getting injured or worse... That being the case, there needs to be regs to include things like, "No fishing is permitted if angler is any higher than one meter above the water".

What about people with a disability fishing & having to roll a wheel chair into the water to unhook a fish? How are they supposed to go fishing with any reasonable way of not breaking the law.

Not workable IMO

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Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2013, 06:13:09 PM »
I hope this clears it up; the Act also references the management plan for that particular fishery, in our case those laws/rules set by the DPI. (the key word is unlawfully)

Qld Fisheries Act 1994

Clause 78
Prohibited acts about regulated fish
(1) A person must not unlawfully take, possess, use or sell a
regulated fish.
(2) A person must not mutilate or disfigure a regulated fish with
intent to hide the fact that it is a regulated fish.

Clause 92
Duty of person who takes or possesses noxious or
non-indigenous fisheries resources

(1) A person who unlawfully takes or possesses noxious or
non-indigenous fisheries resources must immediately—
(a) if the fisheries resource is a fish—kill it; or
(b) if the fisheries resource is a plant—destroy it.

Definition from the Act Dictionary:
unlawfully means without authority under this Act or other
legal authority, justification or excuse under an Act.

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Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2013, 07:14:02 PM »
Dont bother only posting here and write a letter to the minister Agriculture@ministerial.qld.gov.au and then post his response( if any) here
 I release 90% of my bass and yellas from the side of the boat just using long nose pliers and if a bass or yella is under 35cm they are not worth keeping.
 Barra are definitely a different proposition and a landing net is needed in most cases especially if it is green.
 The other wotiffs are the exception and in those cases common sense should prevail and if the fish is released humanly and immediately you should have no problems with inspectors.
Cheers
Ray

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Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2013, 07:24:09 PM »
i ask the question to all? if you hook a metre plus barra this time of the year whilst targeting other species (i.e. jacks) with a lure with trebles, do you attempt to unhook it boatside whilst the fish is in the water (especially using trebles).  freakin dangerous to angler and fish to my knowledge.

You have to get it in the boat to measure it.  ::)

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Re: QLD No Take Legislation. Is it worth the paper it's written on ?
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2013, 07:34:37 PM »

If all of the above is true, then other regulated species (has a bag / size limit or closed season) must be treated the same way? Example, if you already have 2 bass on board in a bass tournament & you keep fishing, then you're breaking the law as you are still targeting them yes?

Thats where their dodgy rule book is also very helpful (in creating confusion), it says you may continue to target barra when you have your possession limit of one on listed stocked impoundments (18 of them), but its vague about that to - it says "may continue to fish once possession limit of 1 is reached", so obviously it is in closed season they are talking about.  I read that as you can target barra in closed season on the SIP listed dams when you have your possession limit already, But you can not target barra when you have your possession limit in open season on those dams, or at any other other time or place.

But it says nothing at all for outside of closed season, outside of dams or other species, you have to interpret that. So does "Joe Smo average bogan fisher" read that as , "see that example? it must mean you keep fishing for all fish", or does he read it and think, hmm they specifically say its ok for that one, so as they haven't mentioned any other species it must only be for that species? (ok, Joe Smo, bogan fisher, probably cant put together that many words in his head without moving his lips, or even translate your allowed to do it when the possession limit is 1 as meaning closed season,  but you get the drift).


 

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